KJs multiway on a paired flop

[Oink]

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I dont think SB is check raising the field on the flop, then leading the turn without an 8 or a K that beats us.


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This is just way too pessimistic. You can not discount flush draws, pps, Kx and even Ax completely here. In particular you will see other Kx and pp's a lot.


What games do you play? Because if its standard for your villains to have such a narrow range I would like to hear more [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[yourface]

SB is more likely to have an 8 than a K based on preflop action and hand combinations, and not everyone will c/r a weak K here on the flop. Ax and smaller PPs need to be heavily discounted if you consider them

I don't think we have enough equity on the turn to make a value/protection raise, and noone would fold anything we want them to anyways

not totally sure about this spot though

edit:
also I really really don't want to deal with a 3bet after raising. in close spots I like taking lines that get me to showdown with a reasonable chance of winning

[Wolfram]

results:

I raise, 2 folds and SB 3-bets his 8x. I call down.

Is it just me, or is it basically correct to almost never raise any marginal hand?

Check/calling seems so often to be optimal. E.g. if an aggro guy is betting and you have TPNK, just let him barrell away. You have to be extremely confident that you have the best hand to make raising on any street correct. And nobody folds any draws anymore, so raising for protection is pretty pointless. And also, noone fold any pair or any A-hi anymore so raising as a bluff or free showdown raises are also pointless.

I feel like I when I'm playing "correct" I'm basically playing loose/passive.

[Oink]

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Is it just me, or is it basically correct to almost never raise any marginal hand?


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I still think this one is close but prolly play more aggro games.

Change the flop to J88 and I think you need to raise turn 100%

[milesdyson]

sb has an 8 here almost always. and then one of the other guy has the case 8 sometimes too. so basically you have to have SB with like KT/flush draw and the other guys with weak Kx/flush draws for you to have the best hand.

i am looking for a fold here. i want to call and then fold if i can't showdown for one bet on each street. no way would i raise.

[mattnxtc]

When the board is paired like this and he c/r into 3people...I think you have to realize your way behind in this hand..I call down at the most, but keep telling myself I need to fold.

[Carmine]

I don't know if it's the correct play but I would have 3-bet the flop here and try(perhaps foolishly) to get this HU. If we take Wolf's line and raise the turn and are then 3-bet I think calling down becomes the most expensive an -EV play. If you want to fold to the 3-bet I guess that's fine but I hate doing that against unknowns (note here that if you been at the table for at least 1/2 an hour you should have a pretty good idea if a player is capable of 3-bet bluffing this spot).

Even if the flop gets capped and we opt to CD it's still cheaper (unless it's still multiway and the action let's us know we're toast). A 3-bet may get a FD to fold incorrectly against the paired board (wishful thinking) and depending on how the action goes from the remaining players allow us to get away from the hand with a good degree of confidence

Having said all that is it any better than just calling down one bet on every street. Is it worth say the 10% chance we get a FD to fold and the 10% chance we get away from our hand for maybe 1BB less when behind. Even getting the lone A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](or any Ace) to fold has some value