am i too tight?

[Landlord79]

Without an A or K on the flop, I wouldn't worry as much about a set leading into you. He may think you're on over cards and leading into you because he thinks you'll fold them. Little does he know you'll fold TPTK here. If you only play 2 pair or better you had better get ready for a lot of these donk bets into you. Sometimes you just have to pay the piper, but this hand is nitty weak.

By smooth calling you control the pot size and also get to see what the in-position player will do.

If you raise, you lose control of the pot size, but you definitely feel out where you are at better. You choose.

[dynacraze]

This is a hand i witnessed that have people with sets betting into the preflop raiser. I just see this way too much whihc is why I folded my TPTK. I feel like most players who are at least decent in full ring have a set-mining approach to the game.

PokerStars Game #10049133067: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/05/22 - 13:03:12 (ET)
Table 'Bernoulli' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: delgados ($96.15 in chips)
Seat 2: paddyjoe ($28.20 in chips)
Seat 3: Shark1 ($53.10 in chips)
Seat 4: tamar_KGB ($74.95 in chips)
Seat 5: dyna140 ($23.70 in chips)
Seat 6: Hugaldo ($48.50 in chips)
Seat 7: CHIPSOHOLIC ($11.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Ferg|greF ($45.55 in chips)
Seat 9: bolm ($55.95 in chips)
dyna140: posts small blind $0.25
Hugaldo: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dyna140 [Ks Td]
CHIPSOHOLIC: folds
Ferg|greF: folds
bolm: folds
delgados: folds
paddyjoe: calls $0.50
Shark1: folds
tamar_KGB: raises $1.50 to $2
dyna140: folds
Hugaldo: calls $1.50
paddyjoe: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [6c 4h 8h]
Hugaldo: checks
paddyjoe: bets $4
tamar_KGB: raises $8 to $12
Hugaldo: folds
paddyjoe: raises $14.20 to $26.20 and is all-in
tamar_KGB: calls $14.20
*** TURN *** [6c 4h 8h] [Qh]
*** RIVER *** [6c 4h 8h Qh] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
paddyjoe: shows [4d 4c] (three of a kind, Fours)
tamar_KGB: mucks hand
paddyjoe collected $55.75 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $58.65 | Rake $2.90
Board [6c 4h 8h Qh Jd]
Seat 1: delgados folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: paddyjoe showed [4d 4c] and won ($55.75) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 3: Shark1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: tamar_KGB (button) mucked [Kd Kh]
Seat 5: dyna140 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Hugaldo (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: CHIPSOHOLIC folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Ferg|greF folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: bolm folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[StnBuddha]

I don't like the raise then fold.....If your gonna open with that hand and get tptk you might as well push with your stack size....

[wallenborn]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising it to 12 would leave me with about 9 which means i am pot commiteed if he repops right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. if he repops, you can fold. Pot commitment has three aspects:

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] You can't fold because folding would leave you with too few chips to continue.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] You can't fold because you're getting fantastic pot odds.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] You can't fold because you've invested so much and don't want to throw that money away.

The first aspect is extremely important in tournament poker. In cash games, it doesn't exist. The third is purely psychological and not a good reason. Don't make that mistake: as soon as your money is in the pot, it's no longer yours. Don't throw good money after bad. That leaves #2, which is real, but overrated. It's what i love to hear from my short-stacked opponents after they called my flop all-in with AK unimproved. If you raise, you raise to find out whether you are beat. Once you found out you aree beat, pot odds of 2-1 are not good enough.

If you play with a full stack, by the way, #2 mostly disappears. Plus, you gain what Sklansky calls The Hammer of Future Bets, that is, your opponent cannot repop without a truly big hand.

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you even play AJ????? (That is a SERIOUS question!!!!!)

[/ QUOTE ]

He's open raising. You don't open raise w/ AJ from MP?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point I was getting across was: "What flop would OP like if he is raising AJ and gets donk bet into?"

Let's look at JJT. I think hero has to fold here too if his premise is that villain only leds with a set. How about a flop of AAT. OP has to fold. DUCY?

[Landlord79]

Oh, I see your variable in there now. With the variable of "you only get donked into by a set", why play anything but the nutz on the flop? This really limits your upside...

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I see your variable in there now. With the variable of "you only get donked into by a set", why play anything but the nutz on the flop? This really limits your upside...

[/ QUOTE ]

...not MY upside, grasshopper [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]


(and it's not MY variable.....)

[dynacraze]

well i am not nitty to fold on a JJ10 flop. It's just that too many ppl hit sets on me to my overpair or TPTK. I overplay it thats why i like the pots to be smaller.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
A donkbet (raising OOP into the PF raiser) usually says I have a good, but not great hand. Sorry, but this doesn't mean he has a set. In fact, it tells me VERY specifically that he does NOT have a set.

[/ QUOTE ]I donkbet with sets a lot.

[dynacraze]

yea its those good players that do it. one even said in chat i like to do that.