weird ruling

[Al_Capone_Junior]

First off this dealer is a moron. He doesn't understand diddly. The fact he's also being a condescending jerk should go far towards lessening his tips, and rightfully so. Next, the days of saying "raise" and having unlimited trips to and from your stack are LONG GONE. And it's not different in tournaments! Misconceptions like these so prevalent in the poker world these days are actually being amplified by their being so many know-it-all players and dealers!

Ironically, he got it half right. Had you said "raise," then put out the $20, you could have subsequently come back with the $50 and the total legal bet would be $70. But when you brought $50 across the line, you just raised $30, finished, done.

The betting line has morphed into the commitment line. You must either verbally state your bet or bring the entirety of your bet (or raise) across the line in one motion. NO MULTIPLE TRIPS, tournament, ring game or other! This is pretty standard these days, not sure where you play that there is so much confusion.

Seriously Hoss, the days of the fifty part legal string raise are pretty much only going to be found on VHS anymore.

Al

[mrKevin99]

It is NOT a "weird ruling". You said raise, put in the enough to raise, and tried to put in more. The reason is if you get to put in more, then you can get a reaction from people of how much to raise. Now, you said $70 and then it does not matter how many times you go in, why didn't you say "I said raise to 70?" no one said anything? Did you really say it?

[TheClam]

Why do people make so many motions towards their chips when they raise? Why not just say raise and then decide how much and then make one motion. You are only asking for trouble when you make multiple motions because you risk the dealer not hearing something you say and having to have the floor come make a decision based on he said she said (in which case you almost always lose)

[MrBrightside]

[ QUOTE ]
Just about everywhere has this rule. Though Randy will tell you that the traditional rule is that you can keep going until you your hands come to rest, the reality of low buy NL hold 'em today is that most rooms follow the rule that once you announce raise you get one motion to raise. You can put out a call and then go back to get a raise. So if you put out your $20 first you could then go back and bring out $50 in one motion. Once you brought out the $50 first though that consituted a full raise.

I do not know of a single Las Vegas poker room that would allow you to simply announce raise and then "go back to my stack 50 times if I wanted and keep adding chips 1 by 1"

Now if you announced the amount of your raise you could take however many motions as you wanted to put it out.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the card rooms in Oklahoma I've played live NL in, this is the rule. Once I say "raise" I can make however many freaking' motions I want. I can't believe this isn't followed elsewhere.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

And furthermore this dealer is causing significant harm to the game and his room, and the floors are doing the same by allowing this idiot to keep getting the rules all wrong but act like he's an expert.

The bet sequence of 15-30-45 is CORRECT and this idiot claiming that 15-30-60 is the way it's done is DEAD WRONG. Seriously, the stupidity is enough to piss me the hell off, someone needs to take this guy out. If the dealer were to bring in the dead money he would see why 15-30-45 is the correct sequence for bet $15, min raise ($30), min re-raise ($45).

A raise must be at least the amount of the previous bet or raise NOT THE COMBINATION OF ALL PREVIOUS BETS AND RAISES COMBINED. Really, this is poker dealing 101, not rocket science. These are bets in the game of poker and you dont need a doubling cube to calculate the amounts.

Example: $1-$2 blinds no limit. UTG makes it $7. What is the minimum reraise?

The blind is $2. The player raised the blind by an additional $5, making it $7 total. Thus the player RAISED THE BLIND BY $5.

Thus if someone wants to reraise, it has to be by at least as much as the previous bet OR raise. So being that the previous RAISE was $5, the next raise must increase the TOTAL by at least $5. So the total minimum reraise is $2+$5+$5=$12.

If you say $14 you are probably an idiot, but you might just have an idiot as your local know it all idiot dealer who doesn't know SQUAT.

Occasionally a room might have a doubling cube type rule on their books. If that is the case their management is ignorant, obtuse and let's not forget stupid all rolled up into one. Someone might have to think so they just got lazy.

Get a friggin' clue already people. You know you can't walk into a scientific or medical convention and try to pass off crap as science, you will be exposed very quickly as a fraud. But since poker is often staffed all the way to the top of the corporation with people who don't know squat, you may get away with talking a bunch of crap for a long, long time. But crap still smells.

Al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Dude, you are talking about OKLAHOMA as if the standards of science, philosophy, art and law originated there. In other parts of the world it's the 21st century not still the 19th.

I have played coast to coast in CASINOS (not backdoor parlors inside the barn) and the many multiple motions method is long dead, and rightfully so. The only use that antiquated method has in today's poker world is for the drama queens who watch too much poker on TV to create additional needless drama and waste even more time.

Al

[psandman]

Al,

No more Red Bull for you. You know how it gets you all excited.

[Taso]

Fellas, it seems you are missing one of the OP's subsequent posts in which he states that he DID declare a verbal raise TO $70. He didnt' just say raise.

In this case the ruling is incorrect, you can put the chips in any way you like once you've stated an amount.

Are you sure you stated the amount? Because in your original post you seem fairly certain you stated "clearly", "RAISE"

If you did state the amount, the ruling was wrong. If you didn't, the ruling was correct.

Edit: By the way, it sounds like the dealer was unaware you stated an amount. Did you tell the floorman that you SAID $70? And if so, what did he say? "You still have to put it in at the same time." ? That would be a bad ruling as well. However, I'm not sure if it would matter at this point, as if the dealer says you didn't say it, I'm not sure if the floor will do anything about it.

[lmcjaho]

[ QUOTE ]
And furthermore this dealer is causing significant harm to the game and his room, and the floors are doing the same by allowing this idiot to keep getting the rules all wrong but act like he's an expert.

The bet sequence of 15-30-45 is CORRECT and this idiot claiming that 15-30-60 is the way it's done is DEAD WRONG. Seriously, the stupidity is enough to piss me the hell off, someone needs to take this guy out. If the dealer were to bring in the dead money he would see why 15-30-45 is the correct sequence for bet $15, min raise ($30), min re-raise ($45).

A raise must be at least the amount of the previous bet or raise NOT THE COMBINATION OF ALL PREVIOUS BETS AND RAISES COMBINED. Really, this is poker dealing 101, not rocket science. These are bets in the game of poker and you dont need a doubling cube to calculate the amounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless the house rule is that any raise needs to be double the previous total (as it is in at least one room around me that I know of).

[bav]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless the house rule is that any raise needs to be double the previous total (as it is in at least one room around me that I know of).

[/ QUOTE ]
I seem to recall someone posting on 2+2 that European casinos tend to use the raise-must-double rule. So there the sequence would be 15-30-60-120 whereas in most parts of the US it's 15-30-45-60.

And speaking of wacky house rules, I've played in a place where they insisted on imposing the bets-double-after-the-turn rule on NL. So playing NL2/5, the minimum bet on the turn and river is $10, not $5. Admittedly this doesn't come up often.