Ugh i messed this up (deep vs 2p2er)

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
So what hands do you think will win if he's going to shove river with once you check? This is why I like a bet/fold better. You will gain alot of value from the same type of hands that are going to call river blockbet and not shove with.

[/ QUOTE ]

i guess the only hands that bet the river after we check that we beat are bluffs and 2 pair. maybe i am over estimating how many times the villains floats us on the flop and continues his bluff on the river?

i guess betting isn't bad, but only if we're gonna fold to a raise.

i'm still not sure what i like here, but you do make a good argument for betting the river.

[jumbojacks]

Insta muck. This is terrible if you're calling since it's a terrible bluff given stack sizes on the river. I hate the river bet and I would much rather call off my stack check-calling here. That said, having 2 pair here is meaningless as he will less likely has a worser 2 pair in his range. It's a sick (and terrible) multistreet bluff if it is one, and I say it obviously isn't.

I hate the river bet. It's a weak bet that really isn't going to induce a bluff. The bet sizing on the turn is interesting and to some degree his flop call, which helps to narrow his range. I think if he's smart, much of what he's doing is based on his perception of your range. This deep I think you're smoked with anything less than a set.

Edit: Actually, I really like the river block bet as he'd be crazy to bluff you here......., lol

[2Paul2]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont see myself folding top 2 here getting 5:1 even though everything says i probably should fold,

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I'm going mad your not getting 5-1.


I'd check the flop a decent amount w/ these stacks. I'd also just flat pre a decent amount if villains a good 2+2er.

I like your line though and I'd fold river if I was thinking clearly/playing well. Your not good 1/3.5 there.

Paul

[True]

definitely re-raise pf, you can bet or check this flop, I like a smaller bet however.

Turn is not terrible, river 100 into 300 :S. Interesting bet size and you kind of induced a bluff. Looks like you might have a scared 1 pair hand like KK / AJ or something and he can rep flush AQ AK / etc / etc.

I call river and don't mind your bet.

I think it's also quite apparent that you don't have a flush with that bet size even though it may be the correct size to bet as no "2p2er" would make that size bet.

[ar0use]

I would bet the turn here, and prolly fold to a big raise. Had I been in the same situation here I'd fold. Don't think that's a bluff there, and shoving with AK or any other hand less than 2 pair makes no sense to me. He has 99 here imho

[Nielsio]

Check-call flop, lead turn seems pretty sexy here. If you then lead the river for $150 you can be absolutely sure you're beat if raised. Leading the flop very strong and checking the turn just seems rather weak.

Another question we need to ask ourselves is what is he going to pay us off with? I don't think much Aces can stand 3 streets of bets. In that regard a river c/c could be better than a lead, if he only ever calls with AK and he would also only bet AK or better.

[2Paul2]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn is not terrible, river 100 into 300 :S. Interesting bet size and you kind of induced a bluff. Looks like you might have a scared 1 pair hand like KK / AJ or something and he can rep flush AQ AK / etc / etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think enough people at 1/2 esp this deep would pick up on that/be willing to follow through w/ it even if they do pick up on it.

Also what hands could he be bluffing w/?

Paul

[jumbojacks]

I wonder how often this is another AQ. A lot of my decisions sway very differently from flop->turn->river depending on the ranges that I have here and the ranges that I put my opponents on and the ranges that they put me on, where in some cases I could fold/call/raise on any street. Kind of tough to tell here with just "he's 2p2."

[ar0use]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how often this is another AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea i was thinking about another AQ also. From villain's point of view:
Hero 3bets pf ->oh he has something,I have AQ on BTN so no way am I folding;
Hero cbets flop->standard and I should raise, but I'll just call and raise him on the turn;
Hero checks turn->okay weakness, he prolly doesn't have a hand and I'm gonna take it down right here.
Hero bets river->wtf?? no way he has a flush here, and with trips he would've c/r turn. He might have QQ but that's the only hand in his range which kicks my ass. I shove !

Is that even close to his thinking or am I way off ? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ElPhoenix]

I think the flop bet could be $30