Who Understands More About Economics?

[pvn]

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"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

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"Shooting yourself in the earlobe is the worst form of shooting yourself execpt for all those others that have been tried."

[Dan.]

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"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

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"Shooting yourself in the earlobe is the worst form of shooting yourself execpt for all those others that have been tried."

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"Trolling Winston Churchill quotes is the worst form of trolling except for all those others that pvn has done."

[pvn]

Using that old tired worn-out cliche is like giving a "free troll pass" to anyone who wants it.

[superleeds]

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If you voted for the rich, please explain how it makes any more sense that major economic decisions be determined by a popular vote than it does to put a decision about aeronautic engineering to a popular vote.

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It doesn't. And luckily modern democracy inhibits the popular vote from determining any major decision, economic or otherwise.

[mosdef]

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I do what I actually can do - I vote for governments that will "help the poor" as you say. It's what is in my power to do locally to try to enact global changes because I can't make global changes through my individual actions. The government is a tool under which the individuals can make global changes by pooling individual actions that would otherwise not achieve anything.

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That's not actually doing something, though. That's just telling other people to do something.

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No, it's saying "I don't have the power as an individual to do something directly, but I am willing to pool resources with other like-minded people. If I get enough people together then we can pick representatives to manage the pooled resources to achieve the goals we could never achieve if we didn't organize."

As I said, you have an argument against government on the basis that you (for example) are unwillingly getting roped into the process. But you have absolutely no argument on the basis that all liberals "don't actually care".

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Liberals simply disguise the authorizing of a government to forcibly confiscate the property of the productive citizens and redistributing it to the unproductive as "caring for the poor."

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Why do "the liberals" want society to be unproductive? This makes no sense. There are certainly some "liberal guilt" types who like to preach morality to make themselves feel good, but assuming that all liberal have the exact same motives is just absurd.

I could say "All ACists don't actually care about individual rights. I mean, come on, like anyone could actually care about anyone other than themselves and their closest friends and family! They all just use the moral argument to disguise their selfishness about wanting to consume as much as they possibly can themselves, and would actually be fine with other people's rights being violated." I would probably be right about some ACists, but I'm not going to make that claim about all of them. For any ideology you can find some subscribers with phony motives, but you ought not to condemn the whole group on that basis.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

[/ QUOTE ]

"Shooting yourself in the earlobe is the worst form of shooting yourself execpt for all those others that have been tried."

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You just proved my point pvn - this is why we need universal health care. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[hmkpoker]

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No, it's saying "I don't have the power as an individual to do something directly

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But you do. Do you know a few people that need help/guidance? Are you incapable of helping them?

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but I am willing to pool resources with other like-minded people. If I get enough people together then we can pick representatives to manage the pooled resources to achieve the goals we could never achieve if we didn't organize."

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Which is funny because redistribution usually consists of the poor majority confiscating the assets of the rich minority.

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Liberals simply disguise the authorizing of a government to forcibly confiscate the property of the productive citizens and redistributing it to the unproductive as "caring for the poor."

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Why do "the liberals" want society to be unproductive? This makes no sense.

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They don't, in the same way that a wild partygoer doesn't want to get a hangover the next day. Redistribution punishes productivity and rewards unproductivity. This can not result in anything but less productivity.

[pvn]

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I don't have the power as an individual to do something directly, but I am willing to pool resources with other like-minded people.

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BS.

If you were pooling resources with "like-minded people" you wouldn't need government. You want to pool resources with other people, regardless of whether they share your concerns, your preferences for particular tactics, whatever.

You want to tell other people what to do.

[pvn]

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If you voted for the rich, please explain how it makes any more sense that major economic decisions be determined by a popular vote than it does to put a decision about aeronautic engineering to a popular vote.

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It doesn't. And luckily modern democracy inhibits the popular vote from determining any major decision, economic or otherwise.

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As has already been explained, you're dodging the question.

Please explain how it makes any more sense to give the power to make major economic decisions (and impose those decisions upon unwilling people) to people selected by popular vote than it does to give the power to make major aeronautic engineering decisions (and impose those decisions upon unwilling aeronautic engineering firms) to people selected by popular vote.

[Mr. Now]

A misleading question, and not enough information to answer.

The guy making little may have a very high net worth.

The guy in the top 5% of all wageearners may have no net worth and in fact, substantial debt.

Rich in the USA is 10MM or more liquid, not simply a high income.

Income does not automatically imply wealth. There are many households earning 200K+ with serious consumption habits and little or no true wealth.