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#21
01-05-2007, 03:27 PM
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Re: I [censored] up, 200bb 5-10
why krantz
i appreciate the humor value though i also hope fisher is yves. 
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#22
01-05-2007, 03:50 PM
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Re: I [censored] up, 200bb 5-10
Fisher,
$12-$1500 is too much. The whole point of betting when putting someone on a draw is to make them pay the maximum possible while making it a mistake for them to call while factoring in thier implied odds as well if they hit their draw. It would be v rare for most donks to call a 3x bet on the turn on a draw. I think $1k is too high also. w/o doing the math $600-$700 is about right.
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#23
01-05-2007, 03:53 PM
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Re: I [censored] up, 200bb 5-10
[ QUOTE ]
omg, fisher plsplsplsplsplsplsplsplspls stop. cole, i hate you. [/ QUOTE ] 1st of all, YOU SUCK! 2nd, YOU STILL SUCK 3rd, STILL SUCKin It's easy for you to post imature comments like so all the time but when it comes to strategy, you really suck! [quote}yea he would have won the pot at its current size but if he bets pot or sllightly more - then he must make a huge mistake to call the bet and you must then fold to the scare cards on the river because there is really no hand you can beat, if you push the turn only hands that call are better ones like a slowplayed set so really that is a bad push just overbet the pot and fold to a k or 8 on the river, that is the best way to get long term value for your hand. [/ QUOTE ] You have a good point here. But I have only one problem with your play. The cards now dictate who wins and who loses. If your running good, then yeah, I guesse. And if he had flopped a set, there's no way with that board that the villian is going to call the flop reraise. His option is to raise medioker knowing well the Hero has atleast a Big Ace that can call. Besides, I'll take my chances the way it was played. [ QUOTE ] The guy made a mistake calling a $350 turn bet with QT if that's indeed what he had. Overbetting the turn is ridiculous unless you know he'll call with a draw, not fold it. [/ QUOTE ] It was not a mistake, it never is when your not priced out to draw the nuts. Over bet? Who says it's an over bet, It's protection. You still have the rest of the night for grinding out more doe. [ QUOTE ] fisher, this is my issue: a guy who calls 400 looking for his straight will easily call 1200-1500, or even an all-in. and then we can't win the hand anyway. so wouldn't we want to bet something in the middle, like 700, and then check and fold the river every time he hits? seems like that would get more value for our big hand but also save us from looking like buffoons and paying off his draw [/ QUOTE ] Depends who you play. In my neck of the woods, folks will call pot size or mid bets on str8 draws when there's 2 cards to come. On the turn, same thing, only now the pots are growing. If player is not tilted or suicidal, there's no way he can call a protection bet with 1 card to come. If he does and snaps you on the river. Then, yeah. You loose more than you could have. But in the LOOOOONG run, you'll end up winning more pots(more munny) and loosing less(loosing pots like theese monsters). It's your call. I'm not telling you how you should play. The situtations change from table to table, player to player. But this is my standardd base. Besides, I hate loosing big pots, but I don't mind it as much if I'm going in with the best hand. Your call TWP- You still suckin?
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#24
01-05-2007, 04:06 PM
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Re: I [censored] up, 200bb 5-10
By betting more than $600 on the turn we're goin to lose villain when he has AK, AQ, and A9, which given the OP's description, are likely hands for him at that point. He will still call with a set, so we will lose more when we're behind, but we will win the least when we're ahead. The only hand where betting such a high amount is QT, which he did have this time, but I think he could have easily had a big ace or a set because he is a fish so his small bet on the flop doesn't mean he has a weak hand. I think hero played it just fine. The river call is a little shaky, but I think villain could minraise A9 or A8.
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#26
01-05-2007, 04:12 PM
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Re: I [censored] up, 200bb 5-10
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The guy made a mistake calling a $350 turn bet with QT if that's indeed what he had. Overbetting the turn is ridiculous unless you know he'll call with a draw, not fold it. [/ QUOTE ] It was not a mistake, it never is when your not priced out to draw the nuts. Over bet? Who says it's an over bet, It's protection. You still have the rest of the night for grinding out more doe. [/ QUOTE ] It was a mistake, he's calling $350 on a 6-1 draw, so he needs to stack Hero basically every time he hits, and that isn't happening. Who says it's an overbet? Any time you bet over the size of the pot it qualifies as an overbet, regardless of the purpose of the bet. Overbetting is just silly/dumb here UNLESS YOU KNOW HE WILL CALL AN OVERBET WITH A DRAW ANYWAYS. If you think he'll fold to an overbet but call the bet for $350, then $350 is clearly the best best and it's not even close.
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#27
01-05-2007, 04:18 PM
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Re: I [censored] up, 200bb 5-10
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] omg, fisher plsplsplsplsplsplsplsplspls stop. cole, i hate you. [/ QUOTE ] 1st of all, YOU SUCK! 2nd, YOU STILL SUCK 3rd, STILL SUCKin It's easy for you to post imature comments like so all the time but when it comes to strategy, you really suck! [quote}yea he would have won the pot at its current size but if he bets pot or sllightly more - then he must make a huge mistake to call the bet and you must then fold to the scare cards on the river because there is really no hand you can beat, if you push the turn only hands that call are better ones like a slowplayed set so really that is a bad push just overbet the pot and fold to a k or 8 on the river, that is the best way to get long term value for your hand. [/ QUOTE ] You have a good point here. But I have only one problem with your play. The cards now dictate who wins and who loses. If your running good, then yeah, I guesse. And if he had flopped a set, there's no way with that board that the villian is going to call the flop reraise. His option is to raise medioker knowing well the Hero has atleast a Big Ace that can call. Besides, I'll take my chances the way it was play. i agree a set is unlikely on this board but how can you say that pushing is the right play??? that is my only contention with your line in this hand. of course everyone wants to win pots but pushing is retarted you never get called by worse hands and only by better ones. yea the cards dictate who wins the pot but mathmatically you are taking the best of it by him making the mistake on the turn by calling the overbet and winning more in the long run than if you were simply to take the pot down on the turn without the extra money in there.
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#28
01-05-2007, 04:22 PM
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Re: I [censored] up, 200bb 5-10
[ QUOTE ]
There's no value when your hand is vulnerable. Screw that Value term. There's a big difference between a grinder and a gambler. If you play cards every other week or so, your probably a gambler. A true grinder plays to make his ways. A true grinder knows when you should "Value" bet or Push. It makes no sense to loose a big pot when you could have won when it was smaller. If he over bets and pushes hard on the turn , you basically price the oponent out unless he's your every other week gambler. In other words, if he had pushed on the turn, he probably would have won the pot instead of having to post this thread. [/ QUOTE ] Do you suck at poker? Honest question.
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#29
01-05-2007, 04:34 PM
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Re: I [censored] up, 200bb 5-10
Oh boy, this thread is getting carried away. Like always. I'm the black sheep. You play what you like. I've seen many, and I'll tell you. Sounds like most of you play alike.
Question: Have you ever sat down at a table for a few hours, and started to have fear when going into a pot with a certain somebody? The fear that they're better than you? The fear that you can't out play that person? The fear that he's always going to have a bigger hand than you, Maybe ACES all the time? Be honest? Well, point blank it's because most of you play alike! GL to you all! I'm done with this one. Next! BTW, where the author of this thread? You know you messed up, that's why your asking. Better luck next time!
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#30
01-05-2007, 04:35 PM
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Re: I [censored] up, 200bb 5-10
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] fisher, what type of bet size do you like on the turn to price out the draw? i always mess up in that spot. [/ QUOTE ] Because I strongly put the villian on that draw the way it was played. If it were me, some where around 1.2K - 1.5K. I'd break his back to have him draw to that str8, and if he called and missed, that's when the term "Value" comes in play. I'm not letting him draw for cheap. If I think I have the better hand, and it's still vulnerable. O yeah, My hammer is swinging. That's why my buds hate playing me. [/ QUOTE ] Your argument doesn`t make any sense. Try to figure out why.
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