Child rapists, evils, and the state

[bkholdem]

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Pedophilia is a mental illness, trying to punish someone for it by sending them to a labor camp or whatever you guys want is beyond inhumane. I don't want to live in a society like that. If your line of thinking is "they abuse children and should be punished proportionally" you don't understand the issue, it is not a simple issue like a lot of people like to treat it as.

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Who is talking about the mental illness pedophilia? I"m talkng about child rapists. Clearly you don't understand what pedophilia is or do not understand what child rape is, becuase they are not the same thing.

[bkholdem]

How much more do you owe the government? What about your wife and kids and parents and cousins and uncles and aunts and nephews and neighbors, et?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

[BCPVP]

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I suppose you would prefer to hunt down and kill everybody accused of child rape instead?

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I think it would be better to make the rapist spend the duration of his sentence in forced labour with all proceeds going to the family of the victim.

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you believe that we should condemn criminals to slavery?

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Can't speak for bk, but I'd say so, at least for criminals who've physically hurt other people. Criminals owe restitution to their victims.

[bobman0330]

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I suppose you would prefer to hunt down and kill everybody accused of child rape instead?

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I think it would be better to make the rapist spend the duration of his sentence in forced labour with all proceeds going to the family of the victim.

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you believe that we should condemn criminals to slavery?

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Can't speak for bk, but I'd say so, at least for criminals who've physically hurt other people. Criminals owe restitution to their victims.

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Couple things. First, I thought the accepted dogma was that slavery is economically impractical in the absence of the state. So having criminals working for you should be a net drain, not a benefit. Second, is it not the case that the people who get sent slaves by the private defense organizations are the same ones paying said PDOs? Wouldn't that introduce all sorts of appallingly bad incentives for the PDOs?

[NickMPK]

I think everyone should be guaranteed health care through the state, including prisoners, and that there should be no cap on the care provided to prisoners simply because they are prisoners. There might be wildly exotic and expensive treatments that the state should not pay for, but if a treatment has been proven to be medically effective, it should be used.

I do, however, think that prisoners should be forced to work to a much greater degree than they do now in order to defray the cost of their incarceration.

I also think that using "child rapists" is a bad example. Such people typically need psychologically care to a much greater degree than most criminals. That's not to say they are morally inculpable. It's not their fault they are attracted to children, but it is their fault in acting on those attractions.

[BCPVP]

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First, I thought the accepted dogma was that slavery is economically impractical in the absence of the state.

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As a profitable venture, yes. But the proceeds are going to victims and there's not much need to show a profit.

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Second, is it not the case that the people who get sent slaves by the private defense organizations are the same ones paying said PDOs?

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Maybe, but it doesn't make much sense to me to pay a group so that someone will pay you. So such a business model by itself doesn't seem like it would work well. I was stating approval for the concept of restitution being made to the victims.

[pvn]

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I think everyone should be guaranteed health care through the state, including prisoners, and that there should be no cap on the care provided to prisoners simply because they are prisoners. There might be wildly exotic and expensive treatments that the state should not pay for, but if a treatment has been proven to be medically effective, it should be used.

I do, however, think that prisoners should be forced to work to a much greater degree than they do now in order to defray the cost of their incarceration.

I also think that using "child rapists" is a bad example. Such people typically need psychologically care to a much greater degree than most criminals. That's not to say they are morally inculpable. It's not their fault they are attracted to children, but it is their fault in acting on those attractions.

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Note to self: NickMPK supports free nose jobs and liposuction for child rapists.

Hahah, ok, seriously. People accuse ACers of being unable to argue outside of their own axioms, but this is just the same thing. Yes, everyone SHOULD have free ponies, but that policy isn't in place.

So, the question should be, GIVEN that there IS NOT universal health care, does it make sense to be giving free nose jobs and botox treatments to child rapists while poor, but law-abiding, citizens die in the streets?

[govman6767]

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I suppose you would prefer to hunt down and kill everybody accused of child rape instead?

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I think it would be better to make the rapist spend the duration of his sentence in forced labour with all proceeds going to the family of the victim.

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you believe that we should condemn criminals to slavery?

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Send them to Iraq there is lots of work to be done rebuilding.

[ZeroPointMachine]

This is a ridiculous argument that demonstrates the worst form of circular logic..

You cannot use the "protect the children" argument to argue against the "nanny state".

[Phil153]

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Note to self: NickMPK supports free nose jobs and liposuction for child rapists.

Hahah, ok, seriously. People accuse ACers of being unable to argue outside of their own axioms, but this is just the same thing. Yes, everyone SHOULD have free ponies, but that policy isn't in place.

So, the question should be, GIVEN that there IS NOT universal health care, does it make sense to be giving free nose jobs and botox treatments to child rapists while poor, but law-abiding, citizens die in the streets?

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So what's your position on imprisonments under AC? What level of medical care will they get? Because the group that does the imprisoning is going to pay significant costs for the upkeep of these prisoners, just like the state does now.

The bottom line is that the more you force someone into slavery or deny them basic human care, the more inhuman the whole system becomes.

Let's take another example: Quite a few prisoners become mentally ill while in prison. Some are unfit to work. What do we do with these people? Deny them expensive drugs and let them become more and more insane? Shoot them?

The bottom line is that this isn't a problem specific to any political system. One you take ownership of someone, you have to take care of them unless torture is morally acceptable. The state sets the bar at "humane, minimal cost treatment", because anything else is cruel punishment, and people don't want that to happen. Do you disagree with this stance?