Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river

[friend_]

Villain is 22/18/2.37, no reads.

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $90.16
UTG+1: $304.15
CO: $430.42
Button: $187.52
SB: $552.70
Hero: $200

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $8</font>, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $44</font>, Hero calls, 3 folds.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($106, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($106, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $40</font>, SB calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($186, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $122</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $122 returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: $186

Completely lost in this hand, the only hand I put villain on is AA.

[DaSwam]

Why no bet on the flop? You can't put him on a 9 calling that re-raise. JJ is more likely but I can't say he's on AA. Wouldn't he make this move preflop once you announced your big hand?

[blackize]

You check the flop and the bet less than half pot on the turn. You're acting pretty weak here so I think his river bet range is rather large, AJ+ JJ+ even some hands he might 3bet light with. I think as weakly as you played this postflop you have to call the river.

I'd probably 4bet push preflop. The CO raise is coming from a big stack which leads me to think he might be positionally aware and thus on a wide range. This makes me think a 22/18 is 3betting here pretty wide. Cold calling the 3bet screams big hand and if his range is as wide as I think it is, he won't be paying you off with much postflop so I just shove it in pre.

[writser]

Why not reraise preflop? Why not bet the flop? Why not bet more on the turn? You are actually trapping yourself this hand.

[friend_]

[ QUOTE ]
You check the flop and the bet less than half pot on the turn. You're acting pretty weak here so I think his river bet range is rather large, AJ+ JJ+ even some hands he might 3bet light with. I think as weakly as you played this postflop you have to call the river.

I'd probably 4bet push preflop. The CO raise is coming from a big stack which leads me to think he might be positionally aware and thus on a wide range. This makes me think a 22/18 is 3betting here pretty wide. Cold calling the 3bet screams big hand and if his range is as wide as I think it is, he won't be paying you off with much postflop so I just shove it in pre.


[/ QUOTE ]


If I shove preflop he may fold all the hands in exception of AA and I wont get anything from him.

[blackize]

Yeah....did you read the post? It's a situation where a 22/18 is 3betting light. If that is the case, he isn't paying you off with a worse hand. Add to that the fact that a flat call SCREAMS big hand and it makes it even more likely you get anything more out of any hand you beat.

[friend_]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah....did you read the post? It's a situation where a 22/18 is 3betting light. If that is the case, he isn't paying you off with a worse hand. Add to that the fact that a flat call SCREAMS big hand and it makes it even more likely you get anything more out of any hand you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

QQ and JJ will fold to shove, but he may pay with them postflop if i just call.
So, you think shove is more deceptive?

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]


QQ and JJ will fold to shove, but he may pay with them postflop if i just call.
So, you think shove is more deceptive?

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think that he's going nuts with QQ or JJ on a 9 high board against a 20ish/17ish player(I'm guessing your stats) who COLD CALLED a 3bet pf? I certainly don't.

And no I don't think it is more deceptive, I think it is the best way to avoid trapping yourself. I think by cold calling you telegraph your hand just as if you had 4bet all in and you'll end up stacking off on J or Q high flops much more often than you stack him on a 9xx flop.

Edit: ANd I think a lot of the time against a player like this you get action with a pf shove when he says "ADSASDASDASD I'VE GOT QQ/AK I CAN'T FOLD!"

[Dan Bitel]

QQ/JJ/AK never fold preflop to by [censored] 4-bets!
Not saying you need to 4bet, just saying that its fine. I mean, are your really COLD CALLING anything except AA/KK for $44?????

The flop check is OK. Pretend we are scared/have AK etc etc.

On the turn, I think we gotta bet stronger.

River fold is just just just OK i guess (giving him a range of JJ+ and some 9s and giving less weight to QQ), but im prob getting my money in earlier than river tbh

[The.Accountant]

I was thinking that you should just shove preflop as well.

If he folds, you probaly weren't going to get paid off postflop unless you were beat anyway.