Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

Villain is 22/18/2.37, no reads.

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $90.16
UTG+1: $304.15
CO: $430.42
Button: $187.52
SB: $552.70
Hero: $200

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $8</font>, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $44</font>, Hero calls, 3 folds.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($106, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($106, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $40</font>, SB calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($186, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $122</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $122 returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: $186

Completely lost in this hand, the only hand I put villain on is AA.

Re: Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

Why no bet on the flop? You can't put him on a 9 calling that re-raise. JJ is more likely but I can't say he's on AA. Wouldn't he make this move preflop once you announced your big hand?

Re: Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

You check the flop and the bet less than half pot on the turn. You're acting pretty weak here so I think his river bet range is rather large, AJ+ JJ+ even some hands he might 3bet light with. I think as weakly as you played this postflop you have to call the river.

I'd probably 4bet push preflop. The CO raise is coming from a big stack which leads me to think he might be positionally aware and thus on a wide range. This makes me think a 22/18 is 3betting here pretty wide. Cold calling the 3bet screams big hand and if his range is as wide as I think it is, he won't be paying you off with much postflop so I just shove it in pre.

Re: Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

Why not reraise preflop? Why not bet the flop? Why not bet more on the turn? You are actually trapping yourself this hand.

Re: Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
You check the flop and the bet less than half pot on the turn. You're acting pretty weak here so I think his river bet range is rather large, AJ+ JJ+ even some hands he might 3bet light with. I think as weakly as you played this postflop you have to call the river.

I'd probably 4bet push preflop. The CO raise is coming from a big stack which leads me to think he might be positionally aware and thus on a wide range. This makes me think a 22/18 is 3betting here pretty wide. Cold calling the 3bet screams big hand and if his range is as wide as I think it is, he won't be paying you off with much postflop so I just shove it in pre.


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If I shove preflop he may fold all the hands in exception of AA and I wont get anything from him.

Re: Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

Yeah....did you read the post? It's a situation where a 22/18 is 3betting light. If that is the case, he isn't paying you off with a worse hand. Add to that the fact that a flat call SCREAMS big hand and it makes it even more likely you get anything more out of any hand you beat.

Re: Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah....did you read the post? It's a situation where a 22/18 is 3betting light. If that is the case, he isn't paying you off with a worse hand. Add to that the fact that a flat call SCREAMS big hand and it makes it even more likely you get anything more out of any hand you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

QQ and JJ will fold to shove, but he may pay with them postflop if i just call.
So, you think shove is more deceptive?

Re: Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]


QQ and JJ will fold to shove, but he may pay with them postflop if i just call.
So, you think shove is more deceptive?

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think that he's going nuts with QQ or JJ on a 9 high board against a 20ish/17ish player(I'm guessing your stats) who COLD CALLED a 3bet pf? I certainly don't.

And no I don't think it is more deceptive, I think it is the best way to avoid trapping yourself. I think by cold calling you telegraph your hand just as if you had 4bet all in and you'll end up stacking off on J or Q high flops much more often than you stack him on a 9xx flop.

Edit: ANd I think a lot of the time against a player like this you get action with a pf shove when he says "ADSASDASDASD I'VE GOT QQ/AK I CAN'T FOLD!"

Re: Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

QQ/JJ/AK never fold preflop to by [censored] 4-bets!
Not saying you need to 4bet, just saying that its fine. I mean, are your really COLD CALLING anything except AA/KK for $44?????

The flop check is OK. Pretend we are scared/have AK etc etc.

On the turn, I think we gotta bet stronger.

River fold is just just just OK i guess (giving him a range of JJ+ and some 9s and giving less weight to QQ), but im prob getting my money in earlier than river tbh

Re: Very strange action with KK, facing sudden bet on the river
 

I was thinking that you should just shove preflop as well.

If he folds, you probaly weren't going to get paid off postflop unless you were beat anyway.