Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25

[jaydreb]

The call PF is OK as long as you're good enough to insta-muck your hand on this flop.

[FireStorm]

P/F is fine, please don't fold. As far as this flop, it's not ideal for you, so fold. Your draw is compromised and there is no guarantee a J moves you ahead. Assuming an 8 is good, the only action you will get when you hit it are from hands that have a million ways to river (censored) you.

[Brimstead]

[ QUOTE ]
P/F is fine, please don't fold. As far as this flop, it's not ideal for you, so fold. Your draw is compromised and there is no guarantee a J moves you ahead. Assuming an 8 is good, the only action you will get when you hit it are from hands that have a million ways to river (censored) you.

[/ QUOTE ]

[AllTheCheese]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't know what to do on this flop I'd argue that it's a "must call".

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean "must-fold"? Obv, if OP is gonna butcher the hand post-flop, he should fold. But what I'm saying is:

Tip 1 - Play well preflop - call.
Tip 2 - Play well postflop - fold on QJT.

But Tip 2 I thought was implied by everyone else's response.

[RapidEvolution]

We have a suited one-gapper OOP against a preflop raiser AND a caller, plus one player who we have position on...all of these suck. However, we're getting 5-1 and our call will close the action. I think calling is fine here, but we're really looking for the flop to smack us in the face (2pair/combo draw/straight/QT8 flop).

The flop is an instant fold, though. SB donks into THREE people, and two of them have position on you (including the original preflop raiser). Also, your hand isn't strong. You have the weak end of a high straight and any Ace is drawing to a better straight than you.

[TheBad]

Getting 1:5 this was an easy call for me PF.

On the flop, i saw middle pair + OESD = Many outs + Villain might bet a draw -> Raise him.

Then, after he had folded i thought that this special pair + OESD might not have been that good...

[FireStorm]

For those of you folding preflop, when can you enter the pot with SC's? Unfortunately, you are not simply going to be handed opportunities all day long to have 9h8h on the button against payoff wizards, deepstacked. Life is not perfect. In this spot, the pot is multiway, our hand is playable, and we get to close the action.

It is deceiving to assume that you have "many" outs on this flop. K's or 9's, IF they are outs, are not good ones by any means. A J doesn't guarantee anything, and an offsuit 8 will thrill us but lead to no action.

Raising is noble but you have less FE then you think, Villain has a lot of holdings that are all over this board and not folding.

[BigDan9]

Would it help for me to add that J9s (particularly diamonds) has mythical status in our home games and seems to win pots almost regardless of how badly you play it?! With friends, and with $60 each and several beers in front of us, I'd be all-in preflop!

In the real world, I think the call pre-flop is cool, but I couldn't fold it quickly enough post-flop. The reasons for doing that (ie you have a weak hand on a nasty board and several opponents) have already been emphasised by others.

[toymach776]

I think the preflop call is fine geting 9-2 but obviously you are playing this weak hand OOP because of its potential to flop a big draw/ big made hand and then getting the money in. PF is fine.
I DONT like the flop play at all. You have second pair, no kicker, outs to a sucker draw that could be tainted by flush cards, bad position, pf raiser yet to act, and a SB that is donking into a 4-way raised pot!!!!!!!! Easy fold.