Foxwooods 20/40: JTs hand

[calc]

I don't like the turn raise not so much for fear of getting 3 bet but for the river action. When you hit one of your draws, you want him to bet into you so you can raise. This way you pick up at least one bet on the river when he's bluffing and two bets when he's got a pair.

If you raise the turn even if you think your chances of getting 3 bet by a better hand are slim, he will certainly check call the river if he has a pair, and check fold if he misses. I don't think its likely that you have much FE with this raise on the turn. You are losing money on the turn raise when your opponent is ahead and losing one big bet on the river both when he is bluffing and you hit, and when he bets for value and you can raise.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the turn raise not so much for fear of getting 3 bet but for the river action. When you hit one of your draws, you want him to bet into you so you can raise. This way you pick up at least one bet on the river when he's bluffing and two bets when he's got a pair

[/ QUOTE ]

unfortunately this is live where everyone misses river value bets. if the river is a heart, villain will likely check/call. if it's a 7 there are four to a straight on board and he'll almost surely check/call. you're only really getting bet into on a non-heart queen.

[The DaveR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this hand is much easier to play if you raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think raising this flop is bad as I will get 3-bet on this street by overpairs a lot of the time. Also AK is not going to fold to a flop raise and thus I'm commited to putting a turn bet rather than taking a free card (this is of course the times I am not 3-bet).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so intuitive but at the same time giving away so much.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you in favor of a flop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not. I think this is the ideal line in that game. By giving away, I mean that it reveals a lot of information.

[Dagger78]

If you can fold an AK here some of the time I think it's worth it.

[Dagger78]

Remeber if we get 3-bet here we're going to pick up 1-2 BBs on the river when we hit, which is like +30% of the time.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I sort of hate this raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy crap, I just read this as if I ddin't read it before and I def don't hate this turn raise at all. Fine. If he calls are you firing again? With live guys I haven't played with lots, I just dont' know who calls with Ace high and who doesn't

[mjkidd]

I like it. If called, you're firing at any non-A or K river, right? Or would you check a J or a T if it hits?

[JJH3984]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it. If called, you're firing at any non-A or K river, right? Or would you check a J or a T if it hits?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be way more likely to bet a J or T than a blank.

[mjkidd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like it. If called, you're firing at any non-A or K river, right? Or would you check a J or a T if it hits?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be way more likely to bet a J or T than a blank.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I guess I don't really see the point of the turn raise. You're trying to get AK or AQ to fold, right? A lot of times these hands will call the turn looking to improve, then fold the river when they don't. Or do you think that if AK is folding, he's going to fold to the turn raise?

[JJH3984]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like it. If called, you're firing at any non-A or K river, right? Or would you check a J or a T if it hits?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be way more likely to bet a J or T than a blank.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I guess I don't really see the point of the turn raise. You're trying to get AK or AQ to fold, right? A lot of times these hands will call the turn looking to improve, then fold the river when they don't. Or do you think that if AK is folding, he's going to fold to the turn raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he calls the turn raise with AK, which he probably will a portion of the time, he is probably going to showdown with it unless he is tight and has specificly AhKh.