Tough OOP hand w/ A3s

[agnoke10]

i like a check call here on the river but im not excited about it. if we bet, we aren't folding out any hands that beat us and we aren't getting any value from worse hands.

[cs3]

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How do people feel about a crai on the turn?



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What is folding that beats us? Any ace that villain can have is probably aces up.

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ch/r is for value vs Jx, 9x, QTs, worse diamond draws etc. villain shouldnt have an Ace here. and if we are somehow behind, well, we have outs

[Paul Thomson]

I think check-raising the turn is great if the Ace didn't fall.

Just double barrell like every other time an ace hits and you don't have it.

[Paul Thomson]

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How do people feel about a crai on the turn?



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What is folding that beats us? Any ace that villain can have is probably aces up.

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ch/r is for value vs Jx, 9x, QTs, worse diamond draws etc. villain shouldnt have an Ace here. and if we are somehow behind, well, we have outs

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I don't think this is the best way to get value. Why do you think Villain would bet the Ace? Wouldn't he check behind alot of his draws when the obvious scare card hits. Why don't we just bet the Ace again and hope he thinks we're bluffing with it. If the Villain is good, we'll get a call alot.


And there is no way that Villain is ever floating us on this flop cause there was a person left behind him to act.

[cs3]

i didnt say turn ch/r was the best way to get value. i actually prefer to just b/c the turn adn think that line is much better for all the reasons you stated.
i was only pointing out that if we DO in fact ch/r the turn, its for value, and not just as a bluff, because we are almost always ahead here

[Paul Thomson]

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i didnt say turn ch/r was the best way to get value. i actually prefer to just b/c the turn adn think that line is much better for all the reasons you stated.
i was only pointing out that if we DO in fact ch/r the turn, its for value, and not just as a bluff, because we are almost always ahead here

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i agree that check-raising would be for value, although we're only getting called by better (unless draws are somehow priced in)...so in that case, check-calling the turn would probably be better.

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
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How do people feel about a crai on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]What is folding that beats us? Any ace that villain can have is probably aces up.

[/ QUOTE ] ch/r is for value vs Jx, 9x, QTs, worse diamond draws etc. villain shouldnt have an Ace here. and if we are somehow behind, well, we have outs

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I think given the action up until this point most of these hands are pretty unlikely and if they do have these hands they just fold to the crai. Betting the turn seems like tbe best way to get value from this range of hands.

[Roadstar]

Do you bet the river? I'm leaning towards yes because the way we played the hand, villain could be committed to calling with Jacks up. On the other hand, I don't think we're folding once we get to the river so we are losing to Ace better kicker/aces up regardless of how we play the river.

By betting, we can "represent" a busted flush draw bluff etc as well and could get worse hands to call.

Agree/Disagree?

I'm thinking jacksup check behind and so the only thing we're "inducing" is from another busted draw like QT or diamonds... but then again, villain theoretically shouldn't be betting that on the turn...

Thanks

[cs3]

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I think given the action up until this point most of these hands are pretty unlikely and if they do have these hands they just fold to the crai. Betting the turn seems like tbe best way to get value from this range of hands.


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i know, and i agree. we went over this 2 posts ago [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Paul Thomson]

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Do you bet the river? I'm leaning towards yes because the way we played the hand, villain could be committed to calling with Jacks up. On the other hand, I don't think we're folding once we get to the river so we are losing to Ace better kicker/aces up regardless of how we play the river.

By betting, we can "represent" a busted flush draw bluff etc as well and could get worse hands to call.

Agree/Disagree?

I'm thinking jacksup check behind and so the only thing we're "inducing" is from another busted draw like QT or diamonds... but then again, villain theoretically shouldn't be betting that on the turn...

Thanks

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you have to think about whether is betting range or his calling range that we beat is bigger? since the 9 got there on the river...i'd just check and let him bluff his missed draws which there are a bunch of. And if the villain was aggressive, he might read our turn play as weak and push over a river bet (albeit he'd probably just put us on a 9 that played the turn bad). but whatever, i prefer check-calling the river.