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#41
06-14-2007, 05:18 PM
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Re: Stud 8 open trips vs. John Juanda
The reason why JJ raises 5th w/o 777 isn't as a semi-bluff hoping for a fold. The reason is because if he calls 5th, his opponent is going to put him on a draw and bet again, ensuring 4 bets go in 5th and 6th. If JJ raises, his opponent fears 777 and checks 6th. JJ then can check behind on 6th if he misses and the same 4 bets go in, or bet with a flush or a made low while he's freerolling and put 6 bets in.
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#42
06-14-2007, 05:27 PM
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Re: Stud 8 open trips vs. John Juanda
At first I thought bet but now I'm thinking check/call. If we bet he's obviously raising a better full house, but he will also raise if he hits a low somehow.
He could have something like (56)737. I wouldn't like having to bet/fold or bet/call as bet/folding in a big pot just sucks and I doubt we are ever getting more than half the pot if we bet/call. But if he has just 777 and doesn't improve on river, I don't think he is paying off. On the other hand, if we check I think he def value bets 777. If I were in his spot I would.
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#43
06-14-2007, 05:28 PM
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Re: Stud 8 open trips vs. John Juanda
We really need to know what hero did 3/4th.
Check-call seems to be the way ahead but I could make an argument for, if not actually perform, a bet fold if our hand simply has to be A/baby 3335x or a boat as far as JJ sees it. I mean, I think it's safe to say that I'd be right to bet-fold here because were I playing this at the WSOP I'd just be playing competent ABC and jamming the pot with legitmate hands and I'd expect JJ to have realised that. Also, if I've been seen as a potstuck station in a few hands. That's your two options, IMO. Check/whatever allows him to check behind with hands that will pay us off which probably pay us off/split. I'd want some read-related reason to believe that JJ is going to bluff me on that board, which he's not going to have unless I was really passive until fifth.
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#44
06-14-2007, 05:40 PM
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Re: Stud 8 open trips vs. John Juanda
[ QUOTE ]
The reason why JJ raises 5th w/o 777 isn't as a semi-bluff hoping for a fold. The reason is because if he calls 5th, his opponent is going to put him on a draw and bet again, ensuring 4 bets go in 5th and 6th. If JJ raises, his opponent fears 777 and checks 6th. JJ then can check behind on 6th if he misses and the same 4 bets go in, or bet with a flush or a made low while he's freerolling and put 6 bets in. [/ QUOTE ] iron, You seem to be living in a place where LFTV automatically checks sixth after being raised on fifth if he fills up.
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#45
06-14-2007, 06:12 PM
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Re: Stud 8 open trips vs. John Juanda
Good hand to post, I've thought about it quite a bit without yet reading responses. In the end, though, I think that unless LFTV rivers quads, it's a pretty meaningless decision. Check-call and bet are going to result in basically the same hands paying off or extracting, as the case may be. The only difference is when JJ has a high hand good enough to scoop, in which case he raises and LFTV is priced in to call (JJ also raises good lows and probably hands like flush/trips plus any low that have scoop potential) but behind JJ's range. JJ knows LFTV can't have a low unless he rivered it, so he's never getting bluffed off of a low.
So c/c, or c/r if you improve to quads.
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#46
06-14-2007, 06:13 PM
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Re: Stud 8 open trips vs. John Juanda
btw when we check river wont JJ often bet trip 7s? Sorry Ive never really played this game seriously before, just seems like check calling is obvious somehow.
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#48
06-15-2007, 06:11 AM
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Re: Stud 8 open trips vs. John Juanda
[ QUOTE ]
we really need 3rd/4th action here guys, like juanda's hand could wasily be (45)737 or something of that ilk that thinks a 6 can scoop sometimes. [/ QUOTE ] i was the bring in, folded to him three away (it was him, other guy, nath, me); two paint cards between him and me. he doesn't need a hand to complete here. he completed, i called. 4th i bet he called. i have another hand with juanda to post and one from today's 3k with mike sexton and some other big pro named bill.
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#49
06-15-2007, 05:15 PM
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Re: Stud 8 open trips vs. John Juanda
The first action is obviously check. There is no value in betting since you have open trips.
The only worse hand that pays you off is 777, and 777 will definitely bet if you check. The only question is whether you should check-raise or check-call. From the action it sounds like Juanda can't be drawing to a boat here (because he would have raised 777 earlier and folded two pair on 5th), so you can check-raise, hoping he pays you off with 777 and doesn't have a straight flush. But that's all super thin... the important thing is that betting out is definitely wrong.
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