QJ suey from C/O. Is this river decision easy?

[Harv72b]

Based on the reads this is a call & hope for overcall situation. Against bad opponents I would usually raise & call a 3bet.

I'm really puzzled about EP2's range here--that K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] was a pretty scary card to fall on the river, and it's hard to come up with non-flush hands that EP2 could have here & bet with. AT basically sums it up, or possibly a slowplayed set. I think a weak ace check/calls, and there aren't any other missed draws for him to be bluffing with.

[Allday Everyday]

Yeah, of all the flaws in my game, those relating to continuation betting are probably some of the worst. I've never worked hard on this issue. Some of you have called my flop bet bad and spew. I thought it was perhaps a little out of line. Can someone tell me exactly how ridiculous my flop play was? Just burning money?

[StrictlyStrategy]

It's wicked fishy. You're in a multiway raised pot with an Ace out in a small stakes game.

Did you expect someone to fold a weak ace to your bet? If so, it's not going to happen.

Or were you just trying to buy a free card as a 30:1 dog? Also not good. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Especially in position this is a great spot to check behind and hit the Ks or Ts on the turn once in a while.

[Allday Everyday]

[ QUOTE ]
It's wicked fishy. You're in a multiway raised pot with an Ace out in a small stakes game.

Did you expect someone to fold a weak ace to your bet? If so, it's not going to happen.

Or were you just trying to buy a free card as a 30:1 dog? Also not good. Especially in position this is a great spot to check behind and hit the Ks or Ts on the turn once in a while.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey, thanks for the response SS!

[ QUOTE ]
It's wicked fishy. You're in a multiway raised pot with an Ace out in a small stakes game.

[/ QUOTE ]
But hang on, it was me who raised the pot. It's a seven handed game. The two guys before me limped. They seem unlikely to have an ace, right? A little more unlikely when they check to me at the flop? So it's just them, me, and one other guy in the pot.

[ QUOTE ]
Did you expect someone to fold a weak ace to your bet? If so, it's not going to happen.

[/ QUOTE ]
No way I'd dream of getting an ace to fold, however, I can get better and worse hands than mine to fold with that big overcard out, right? I'm representing the ace. I want to take the pot down there. I don't think it'll happen as much as not, but the raised multiway pot looks nice to me. And if I can't take it down there, I can limit the field and all that.

But yeah all this said, I know it is a multi-way pot, and players good and bad do like to play aces, and aces aren't the only problem I face.

[ QUOTE ]
Or were you just trying to buy a free card as a 30:1 dog? Also not good.

[/ QUOTE ]
As for the free card play, nah that's not why I bet with my longshot draw, but the chance I can possibly take a free card later does make the play better, right?

I struggle to see this as a terrible play. But, I haven't done much thought on it. How is my thinking flawed?

[JJH3984]

I don't think betting this flop is burning $ on fire. I wouldn't bet tho.

[HoneyBadger]

The only thing good I can say about that flop bet is that if you manage to get a free turn card, it's alright. There's a lot of possible turn cards where you'd like to see one more. But you're not last to act, and you were the PFR, so everybody expects and waits for you to bet. The fact that they check does not mean nobody hit. If you get c/r-ed you are pretty much forced to fold -- imagine how that contributes to your table image.

I'm also guilty of too many c-bets, especially when 8 tabling; I raised preflop, so I almost automatically bet the flop, which is quite stupid at times.

[Harv72b]

As always there are exceptions to any rule, but in general, I cbet the flop when:

1) I believe I have the best hand.
2) I'm up against only 1 opponent & don't get disconnected.
3) I'm up against 2 opponents & the flop wasn't absolutely hideous for my hand.
4) I'm up against 3-4 opponents and the board appears to have hit my raising range.
5) The flop improved my hand.

In this case, the flop did improve our hand a little bit--we picked up two backdoor draws. Additionally, with the ace flopping a bet can & often will get some better hands to fold (unimproved pocket pairs & many king high hands). The ace also obviously appears to have helped many hands in our raising range. And doubt that you're getting check/raised very often at all when you bet, while you probably are getting the option of taking a free card on the turn most of the time. Button's coldcall doesn't worry me too much as there are very few ace high hands that a typical opponent is coldcalling with in a 10/20 online game.

So I do kinda like this flop bet. You're unlikely to get check/raised (and if you do it's probably a set or aces up), and you have good folding equity against quite a few better hands. The flop is also devoid of likely draws, with the glaring exception of a diamond flush draw. If you do get raised or check/raised you can easily fold & still maintain your table image (after all, you could have JJ here right?).

[n.s.]

I play it the same way. I like this flop bet, despite that fact that it's 4 handed, because decent players really shouldn't have an A here, and there's no draws that can call other than a flush draw. If the other players were worse (and likely to limp in early with weak aces and such), then I'd be more inclined to check.

The river seems like an easy call to me - definitely a spot to go for the overcall and hopefully make the same when ahead and save a bet when behind.