50nl KK runs into a nasty turn

[sqwisssssss]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like check/folding the turn. usually an 18/16 has a pp here and wants to show it down. rarely is he floating with overcards or calling oop with sc, otherwise he wouldn't be 18/16. c/c and betting both seem reasonable to me.

[/ QUOTE ]



what does villan have that we can beat when villan calls our 7 dollar bet on the turn? sorry but it looks like all we can beat is a bluff.

investing money into the turn and river thinking we can win is too heroic for me. we have pocket kk and there is possible quads, full house, trips, straight and a flush out there.

i really hope hero called on river so we can find out what the result was. i just cant see villan betting the river with anything except pure air or a hand that beats us. and if villan does have air, i think he would have raised the hero's turn bet.

when villan called the flop, i already didnt like it.

[DaycareInferno]

just because villain isn't usually calling us with anything we beat here, doesn't mean that we should fold our hand, because villain is still folding enough of the time for a bet to be profitable here, whether there is any value to be gained or not, simply from taking the pot down. i think the only real question is whether or not we would rather c/c to induce a bet out of hands like 88 that were trying to show down, but think that you're weak and/or don't want to see a 4th club.

if we raised from mp and villain called on the button, everything would be different, but this guy's range is probably mostly mid/small pp here.

[sqwisssssss]

[ QUOTE ]
just because villain isn't usually calling us with anything we beat here, doesn't mean that we should fold our hand, because villain is still folding enough of the time for a bet to be profitable here, whether there is any value to be gained or not, simply from taking the pot down. i think the only real question is whether or not we would rather c/c to induce a bet out of hands like 88 that were trying to show down, but think that you're weak and/or don't want to see a 4th club.

if we raised from mp and villain called on the button, everything would be different, but this guy's range is probably mostly mid/small pp here.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, 44 or 55. sorry but i think we are smashed here or villan has complete air and played it masterfully. i'll keep my mouth shut and see what others have to say about this. i hope op posts results. i know it doesnt matter but i really think we are crushed here. 90% crushed and 10% villan has air. goodnight daycare.

[Parvex]

[ QUOTE ]
just because villain isn't usually calling us with anything we beat here, doesn't mean that we should fold our hand, because villain is still folding enough of the time for a bet to be profitable here, whether there is any value to be gained or not, simply from taking the pot down.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're basically advising a blocking bet in order to prevent him vom bluffing with worse hands? Because he's for sure not folding any of the hands that have us beat.

I dunno if I like it, but it gains definatly in value, because of the flush draw, giving us the opportunity to take the pot down against a made flush, if we hit. But this could be irrelevant if he chooses to raises the turn with his flush in order to protect his hand against higher clubs. Not an unrealistic scenario if we consider his AF.

So I think c/c is may be better, because his AF also makes it possible that he bets middlepair hands or possibly even 67, if that's in his range, in order to take the pot down. Combining this with the times he has a flush or an ace, or a five, we should have enough equity to call a moderate sized bet on the turn. And if he does not bet, we get a freecard and infinite pot odds. And you can't turn down such an offer.

With his aggression I don't think c/f is a reliable option, because as stated he might bet weaker hands than a draw, if we check. So we don't have to count on implied odds, which a poor at the moment, alone, facing a turn bet, which could enable us to call his bet.

[DaycareInferno]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just because villain isn't usually calling us with anything we beat here, doesn't mean that we should fold our hand, because villain is still folding enough of the time for a bet to be profitable here, whether there is any value to be gained or not, simply from taking the pot down.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're basically advising a blocking bet in order to prevent him vom bluffing with worse hands? Because he's for sure not folding any of the hands that have us beat.

I dunno if I like it, but it gains definatly in value, because of the flush draw, giving us the opportunity to take the pot down against a made flush, if we hit. But this could be irrelevant if he chooses to raises the turn with his flush in order to protect his hand against higher clubs. Not an unrealistic scenario if we consider his AF.

So I think c/c is may be better, because his AF also makes it possible that he bets middlepair hands or possibly even 67, if that's in his range, in order to take the pot down. Combining this with the times he has a flush or an ace, or a five, we should have enough equity to call a moderate sized bet on the turn. And if he does not bet, we get a freecard and infinite pot odds. And you can't turn down such an offer.

With his aggression I don't think c/f is a reliable option, because as stated he might bet weaker hands than a draw, if we check. So we don't have to count on implied odds, which a poor at the moment, alone, facing a turn bet, which could enable us to call his bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like c/c more than betting too, just making the point that its not that big of a deal that a bet will only be called by better hands if you're not up against enough better hands to make it a losing venture.

[BishopsFinger]

grunch:

the turn bet is good, c/f river.

[dirtylobster]

c/f river

[bored]

Since everyone wants results, I'll let you know that Villian had 77, MHING. I made a note.

[sqwisssssss]

[ QUOTE ]
Since everyone wants results, I'll let you know that Villian had 77, MHING. I made a note.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i was the only one who wanted results. thanks.

well played op. villan sucks.