casino dilemma

[osoverride]

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Strategy:

Tight/aggressive, ABC, no slow playing, very little bluffing, value bet, over bet, big pairs and big cards need big pf action, straights, flushes and sets rule.

Have a few buy-ins as backup, variance will be high.

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in this type of game do you think long term will make or lose money? and is it going to be so small of a win or lose that i should even be playing in it?

[PantsOnFire]

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[ QUOTE ]
Strategy:

Tight/aggressive, ABC, no slow playing, very little bluffing, value bet, over bet, big pairs and big cards need big pf action, straights, flushes and sets rule.

Have a few buy-ins as backup, variance will be high.

[/ QUOTE ]

in this type of game do you think long term will make or lose money? and is it going to be so small of a win or lose that i should even be playing in it?

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You most certainly can make money from this table. Exploit their mistakes.

If they play too many hands, they generally have weak cards. So get in there with better cards and outkick them on top pair hands, get higher straights and get nut flushes.

If they overbet or are too aggressive, get in there with good cards and let them do the betting for you.

If they are ABC, then figure out what the ABC is and you can read them a lot better. Especially figure out how they play straight and flush draws as opposed to made hands.

When you get a premium hand, get all the chips in preflop if you can. If not, push a lot on flops you are happy with.

Your variance will be high so realize that a lot of the time you will be losing chips when you limp or call a light raise and then get out after the flop misses you or the action gets stupid. However, when do get past the flop, you stand to win a very big pot.

Remember the goal is to win money, so while you might only win one pot an hour, it will be a big one and the rest of the time you are looking for spots to go all the way but will be getting out of the way mostly (hopefully for as cheap as you can).

Lose the least you can when you are speculating and win the most you can when you are ahead.

Oh, and you're going to get more than a normal share of bad beats. If you can forget about the variance and the bad beats, you should have a grand ole time.

[PantsOnFire]

Actually, now that I think of this a bit more, perhaps tight/aggressive is not particularly the best style here.

You probably won't be able to buy many orphaned pots. And you probably also won't be able to muscle out some players.

So really, your play might resemble a cross between a rock and a fish. The rock portion will get you some cash when you play premium hands or top notch draws and hit flops. However, these guys probably won't recognize your rock play so you will get paid more than a typical rock against good players.

If you add to that a fish strategy of some loose passive play, that might work as well. However, you won't be a regular fish. You will play small pairs and unsuited and suited connectors cheap and then get out of pots that don't hit you hard. The other passive aspect is to check your draws. You don't want to be check-raised when you can get a free card in late position and you don't want to start a raising war if you're in early position.

[osoverride]

that has to be the best advice i could get..wouldn't have thought that playing like a rock would be affective but i can see how it would. also the strategy you gave would appear to be appropriate for this type of game but i have a few more questions now, so if i use your strategy wile starting off at least, what should be my range...ie only AQ-AK off or suited and JJs or better? not including smaller pots where i would be playing small suited connected in late position or on the button for cheap(assuming i can find this spot)? and should i be looking to be the first one in the pot rather then a position strategy en tell i accumulate chips? i don't have much experience with these types of games thats why i ask. and other advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks

P.S. at what point if any would should i be thinking of switching styles? do you think it would make a difference if say i switched from a rock and loose passive to tight aggressive when i reach a 300+BB stack??

[osoverride]

bump*

[gedanken]

if you're not a serious postflop expert, don't go messing around with suited connectors or other speculative hands at this table. You'll CONSTANTLY be making weak made hands and tempting draws that can be really tricky to play with all the action going on.

Play tighter than you can stand. If the other players don't laugh when you raise (for the first time in 45 minutes), you're not playing tight enough.

It will be a joke the first time, and it will kill you to see your AKs pick up the blinds. But then 3 hands later, you'll get 3 callers and a raiser against your KK. If you have a small enough stack, you can raise all-in right then.

Read about short-stack-strategy. It will mop the floor with a loose aggressive table.

This kind of table can certainly be beat. Wait for good cards, bet them. Fold when the flop misses you, and (almost) never try to bluff. Takes a lot of patience. You might not win much at any given session, but you won't lose as much on your bad days as you win on good ones.

[AKQJ10]

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if you're not a serious postflop expert, don't go messing around with suited connectors or other speculative hands at this table. You'll CONSTANTLY be making weak made hands and tempting draws that can be really tricky to play with all the action going on.

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Small pairs are speculative hands. Small pairs can certainly be profitable to a novice in loose games, if stacks are deep enough and if the preflop action isn't too wild.

[bearwiredpair]

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Actually, now that I think of this a bit more, perhaps tight/aggressive is not particularly the best style here.

You probably won't be able to buy many orphaned pots. And you probably also won't be able to muscle out some players.

So really, your play might resemble a cross between a rock and a fish. The rock portion will get you some cash when you play premium hands or top notch draws and hit flops. However, these guys probably won't recognize your rock play so you will get paid more than a typical rock against good players.

If you add to that a fish strategy of some loose passive play, that might work as well. However, you won't be a regular fish. You will play small pairs and unsuited and suited connectors cheap and then get out of pots that don't hit you hard. The other passive aspect is to check your draws. You don't want to be check-raised when you can get a free card in late position and you don't want to start a raising war if you're in early position.

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Its so amazing when I read a post from pants every thing becomes so clear.

Thanks Pants

[osoverride]

the advice is sound and i do like most of it but just to clarify... i am a sound post flop player. i can read these players like books but i am mostly conserened with strategy in this cash game rather then reading players. i also know how to play small pairs and from what position i should be beating and raising (by default) (not including and changes i make to hide my hands strangth). i appreciate the help, i really do, the only thing is that i am asking what you guys think should be my rang specifically starting out and when, if ever, should i switch my playing style (excluding the normal players at the "good player"/ only because there are only about 4 in the whole card room on these tables.

so far i gather that everyone can aggee that starting out i should be playing like a rock not tight/aggressive and maybe lose/passive correct. and everone also agress that this table can be profitable over the long term correct? so now if i can get just the rang that peopel think would be correct starting out and up to what point that would be great.

ps
YOU GUYS ARE GREAT THANKS FOR THE HELP!! really guys this web site is great and everyone is nice. i really enjoy everyones help. almost like everyone has everyones back no matter how obvious the answer is.lol