Hero Call Time? From FTP 55k

[mlagoo]

both you and shaun are essentially saying that i should bet to "see where im at," to "make the hand easier to play." youre both also basically admitting that worse hands do not call and better hands do not fold. i think betting this flop is dumb, and until i hear an argument better than "youll figure out where youre at" im gonna keep thinking that.

[sheetsworld]

I like cbet this flop, both on its own merits and also to set up later cbets where you flop stronger. (metgame, shaniac or whatever )

Betting this flop does get "weaker" hands to call actually, especially bb calls. 77 will likely call, as will any flush or straight draw as well as some offsuit 6's etc. Obviously you dont have it easy on later streets as you will need to figure out whEther the turn and river hit them but I think if you are up against a draw you need to charge them for it and if you are up against a 6 or something you need to value bet...call the rationales what you want, I am pretty sure I like to cbet here.

As such, he has missed all draws but connected on the random 6....I think that his action is more indicative of a 6 like 67diaminds than a missed draw but I think there are enough missed spade darws and 57's and 77's that you might actually be able to make a call on the river. The King is a rough one, not because it might have hit him, but because it allows him to not "bluff" into your AK, reducing the likelihood that he is blufifng etc.

I dunno...not such a bad call me thinks but certainly on the edge.

Yikes that definitely had more promise when I was thinking about it....and I am not rewriting it sry



sheets

[MLG]

I really really think checking behind on the flop is fine here. Honestly if I get cr-ed I really hate both my options. Now that doesnt mean that you dont end up with your own set of problems on the turn/river like here. I think folding is fine here, but if you are playing hands this way often it has to be because you guess better than your opponents, so you need to be aware enough of your image/opponents metagame and all that stuff so that you are calling in similar if not identical spots some non trivial % of the time.

[People_Mover]

I'm definitely betting the flop. I'm weak tight so I prob. fold the river though. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[NoahSD]

Flop check is good... I assume the table's 9-handed so after he opens UTG there's no value in betting this flop, but there's value in checking and then betting turn.

Turn is obv standard.

I like a call on the river. He could have Kx or 6x. Sometimes he has Qx, but a pretty high % of the time he has XX and is just betting because you showed weakness and the river brought a scare card.

Edit: plus he also checks Qx and sometimes even Kx.

[Soulman]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop check is good... I assume the table's 9-handed so after he opens UTG there's no value in betting this flop, but there's value in checking and then betting turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why?

[lanerunner]

If you're afraid to c-bet with that flop, then fold pre-flop, you'll save money.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're afraid to c-bet with that flop, then fold pre-flop, you'll save money.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the help dude

[Pudge714]

It sounds like I'm just following ZJ et al, but I bet this flop, you can bet for value against a lot of draws or weaker pairs.
As played I think this is a call people never full pot a queen here and rarely full pot a king. He can lead a ton of draws on the turn and will follow up on the river. He could have 6x.

If I have AK on the this flop having a spade can easily change my mind as to whether or not to bet or check. Also AK can improve much easier 6 outs > 2 outs, which is one advantage of checking AK vs. 88.

[EC10]

i really like ZJ's posts in this thread.

ill just add that on a more simpler note i think the flop check, big turn bet and even bigger river pot bet are almost always value bets from unknowns in these situations (oop vs PF raiser, esp. UTG). i dont like the call 90% of the time.