200-400 Hand.

[DcifrThs]

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6 handed. Typical high stakes players. Two to the right of the button opens for 400. You are next and make it 600 with KJ of diamonds. Button makes it 800. Blinds fold. Flop Q42 with diamond club spade. Check, check, bet, call. Easy call, easy fold, close call or close fold?

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backdoor 2 pr, straight, and flush outs + good relative position make this a call on the flop for me.

id do the math but im lazy atm.

Barron

[SoBeDude]

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easy call. with your "1.5 outs" of backdoor draws

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why only 1.5?

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Lets look at math:

a runner-runner flush is 10/47 * 9/46, or 0.0416, or 4.1%

a runner-runner straight is 8/47 * 8/46 or 0.0296 or almost 3%.

so the odds of hitting either BD is 7%.

1 out is 1/47, or 0.021, or 2%

so it seems that both back doors should be considered a 3 1/2 outer, but we can be wrong about our draws here as they tend not to be the nuts (we can hit our draw and still lose).

So with 15.5 SBs in the pot, (13.5 PF, 2 on the flop)
you're getting positive equity to make the call considering those outs alone.

If you have pair outs as well (which is possible) you have an easy call.

-Scott

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]

Lets look at math:

a runner-runner flush is 10/47 * 9/46, or 0.0416, or 4.1%

a runner-runner straight is 8/47 * 8/46 or 0.0296 or almost 3%.

so the odds of hitting either BD is 7%.

1 out is 1/47, or 0.021, or 2%

so it seems that both back doors should be considered a 3 1/2 outer, but we can be wrong about our draws here as they tend not to be the nuts (we can hit our draw and still lose).

So with 15.5 SBs in the pot, (13.5 PF, 2 on the flop)
you're getting positive equity to make the call considering those outs alone.

If you have pair outs as well (which is possible) you have an easy call.

-Scott

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you're not considering the cost of drawing on the turn, and your runner runner straight calculation is wrong.

you're also not considering the times you make both a straight and a flush.

[The Bryce]

I made a mistake earlier in this thread. I mentioned that you were a 25:1 dog to make your backdoor flush, but the cost to draw to that flush over two-streets is obviously greater than 1 bet. At the tables I don't ever use multi-street odds.

[Joe Tall]

It's a thin call. I think we all know it's a thin call. It depends on your style. Online where we have to play a higher variance style we should call. Live where every action is personified sounds like a better place to fold.

[obi---one]

think u should call.....unless other players are super snug

[rory]

Easy call. You have a backdoor straight and a backdoor flush draw and there are 14 bets in the pot. Pairing either of your cards might be good as well.

[rory]

Yeah this is what I thought Sklansky meant by easy-- that it should be easy to figure out the right play, not that it was really extra big positive EV.

[danzasmack]

I can't help but wonder why sklansky posted this hand.

[rory]

I don't understand why you would call online and fold live. Can you explain that? It seems like this is a call just because of math, why should the arena change it at all?