stay at home mom - a $134k job

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Applying a salary to a stay at home mom seems pretty dumb since women are the ones who want to have children.

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About [censored] time.

This was your choice lady, don't tell me what you deserve to be compensated for it. Nobody hired you for the job.

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If you weren't joking with that "your choice" comment, then YOU win the official idiot cap for this thread.

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It's only not her choice when the law forbids it. In Ireland, that statement would mean something much different than it means here. And that's just talking about a part of the equation -- what happens when pregnancy has already begun.

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Here and now seems perfectly adequate.

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Fine. I think it belongs elsewhere, but whatever.

My love and adoration for my wife has grown exponetially since we've had kids. Our love has grown in a way impossible without children. Why?

1. We have a common bond that a childless couple cannot possibly imagine
2. I see a mother's love, compassion, caring, nurturing ,etc. -- a side of my wife that I never would have experienced without children.

When a man and woman come together for common needs, wants, and satisfaction, they are individuals. When they have children together, it changes the entire paradigm.

What is it that you don't understand?

Yes, I base a lot of what I believe on statistics, logic, rational thinking, and realism. Without children, my wife and I are individuals -- with individual needs and wants. With children, we have a singleness that cannot be described or defined.

Would you be so kind as to answer a simple question:

What does a childless marriage offer that living together without marriage does not?

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Security and a much higher level of commitment. The necessity to think more seriously about maturing as a person and not acting up and acting our worst, because cutting and running isn't such an easy option any more.

As I noted in a post above, security is especially important to women. Many guys would love to go on forever being unmarried and only with great reluctance get married at all. Often the only reason they do is that they figure they're in a better situation with a better person than they're likely to be with later. To be fair, many women undoubtedly feel the same way. But whereas men can typically ride out not being married for a very very long time, and stay with someone they don't feel is worth a long-term commitment, most women won't put up with that forever.

So a relationship is not a unilateral thing. Just because a man might want the relationship to go on forever without marriage, that does not mean it will happen.

Many other marriages come together only because someone is pregnant, for religious and social reasons. He may find himself unmarried, all right, but without the woman he was with for a long time. This can be just as traumatic for a man as a woman, if not more so.

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You seem duty-bound to defend the child-with marriage as a higher plane than a childless one. I think you have a good point that I'll have to think about more, but I'm not sure I agree that a "regular" marriage is a stunted one (in effect).

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This is the other side of the coin that is not being considered. Just because a path forks one way and is satisfying does not mean that all other directions must necessarily be unsatisfying or less satisfying. They are simply different. Bravo for enjoying the path one takes, but that hardly makes it the only one worth taking or somehow superior. Different things for different people. It should not be so hard to understand that not everybody is the same and profits from the way of thinking and living. This seems very chauvinistic.

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1. We have a common bond that a childless couple cannot possibly imagine


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This seems like a failure of the imagination. And again, it skips out on considering that other ways of living have, of course, their own rewards.

You do not ever get something for nothing. Every choice you make means you leave aside other benefits, as well as picking up different rewards. It's just the way the world works.

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Yes, I base a lot of what I believe on statistics, logic, rational thinking, and realism.


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You also base a surprising amount of it on solipsism and an inability to empathize or simply rationally put yourself in another's shoes.

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who seem destined for divorce, if THAT is all they are together for.

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What else is their goal?

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Objection, your Honor. Asked and answered. Repeatedly. And while never being any less than obvious.

[Golden_Rhino]

Working dad's tab:

Driving to work: Chauffer would cost at least 20k a year

Listening to wife bitch and moan: a good shrink is pricey

Spending time with kids: $$$$

Bottom line is that anyone can add a value to any of the crap they do that they aren't paid for.

[RoundGuy]

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Security and a much higher level of commitment.

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Ah, now I can bring this to the level of OOT:
Commitment? WTF? Why would you commit when you can bang anyone you want?

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The necessity to think more seriously about maturing as a person and not acting up and acting our worst, because cutting and running isn't such an easy option any more.

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Without kids, why would this thought even cross my mind?

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As I noted in a post above, security is especially important to women.

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Who cares about the ho?

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Many guys would love to go on forever being unmarried and only with great reluctance get married at all.

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No [censored] , sherlock

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Often the only reason they do is that they figure they're in a better situation with a better person than they're likely to be with later.

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What single guy thinks that? There's plenty of fish in the pond. Go for it.

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Just because a man might want the relationship to go on forever without marriage, that does not mean it will happen.

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So dump the biatch. What's your point?

You have failed to answer my question:

What does a childless marriage offer that living together without marriage does not?

[TheMetetron]

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Applying a salary to a stay at home mom seems pretty dumb since women are the ones who want to have children.

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About [censored] time.

This was your choice lady, don't tell me what you deserve to be compensated for it. Nobody hired you for the job.

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If you weren't joking with that "your choice" comment, then YOU win the official idiot cap for this thread.

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Winner?

Explain to me how the woman didn't choose to have the kid and I'll give them all sorts of sympathy. No one forced them to have sex the first time, let alone continue with the pregnancy once it began. Realize what you are getting yourself into without bitching about it BEFORE you decide to do it. Don't come back later and start whining about how hard your job is and how under appreciated you are. It's like teachers bitching about not getting paid enough and not being appreciated.... shut the [censored] up you chose to be a teacher, find a better job if you want more [censored] money.

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Security and a much higher level of commitment.

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Ah, now I can bring this to the level of OOT:
Commitment? WTF? Why would you commit when you can bang anyone you want?

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The necessity to think more seriously about maturing as a person and not acting up and acting our worst, because cutting and running isn't such an easy option any more.

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Without kids, why would this thought even cross my mind?

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As I noted in a post above, security is especially important to women.

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Who cares about the ho?

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Many guys would love to go on forever being unmarried and only with great reluctance get married at all.

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No [censored] , sherlock

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Often the only reason they do is that they figure they're in a better situation with a better person than they're likely to be with later.

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What single guy thinks that? There's plenty of fish in the pond. Go for it.

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Just because a man might want the relationship to go on forever without marriage, that does not mean it will happen.

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So dump the biatch. What's your point?

You have failed to answer my question:

What does a childless marriage offer that living together without marriage does not?

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This is bizarre. Like I said, a relationship is not unilateral. If you want one that's lasting, you will probably have to get married. Most women will not tolerate less.

If you think women are only good for banging and actually don't want a relationship, that's different. But if that's so, I see drug addiction, alcoholism, violence, and the usual bad behaviors that men often drift into when alone too long. There's a reason married people live longer. A lot of men would tear themselves apart if not sooner or later with someone else who gave a damn about them.

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Without kids, why would this thought even cross my mind?


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Because you're not stupid?

Okay, your responses have been perversely obtuse and non-responsive for way too long. At this point, you're deeply into the level of trolling, so I'm going to skip the rest.

[MrMon]

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assuming 'stay at home mom' includes home-schooling,

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pretty sure this study didn't consider home-schooling part of the job

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i agree, which is why i placed my original value on this position as being closer to $200k.

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most teachers don't get 50k+

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Most teachers make a lot more than you think, especially if they have any years in and a master's degree. They idea that teachers are poor and underpaid is pretty much a myth spread by teacher's unions. Average nationwide salary for teachers in 2005 was $47K+.

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Poor is much less arguable than underpaid.