200NL 6max Combo Draw bet/3bet?

[Fonkey123]

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This hand is insane. The only card you're really comfortable seeing is a non heart 7. Button probably has broadway hearts, and UTG is probably a donk. If you push and get called on both places, you probably only have 3 outs. With that said I'd still prob 3 bet to like 120 and push any turn.

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It's a FD+pair, not FD+SD. I made the same mistake initially.

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Oh whoops. Easy three-bet/call push then [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Nielsio]

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This hand is insane. The only card you're really comfortable seeing is a non heart 7. Button probably has broadway hearts, and UTG is probably a donk. If you push and get called on both places, you probably only have 3 outs. With that said I'd still prob 3 bet to like 120 and push any turn.

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It's a FD+pair, not FD+SD. I made the same mistake initially.

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Oh whoops. Easy three-bet/call push then [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Well, you did actually make a valid point. Namely: if they both call and donk has AK and tighty has higher flushdraw, then what are your outs for winning the main pot?!!?

[bilbo-san]

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Who cares? We're getting like a million to one on a flop call.

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I care. I don't like taking the worst of it when there isn't much in the way of implied odds.

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You disagree with a ton of respected big winners on a lot of hands, and are very dismissive of their reasoning.

This might be ok, if most of your advice weren't complete [censored].

Your getting about 6:1. You are about 4.2:1 to hit on the next street. This is a +EV call. Prattling on about how you don't like to "take the worst of it" is retarded.

By all means, put in $140 with an expected return of around $80 instead of $16 with an expected return of $18 or so.

Pair + flushdraws come up in this forum all the time, and every time, it illustrates that 90% of SSNL doesn't have a [censored] clue how to play them.

This is probably because 90% of SSNL doesn't bother to read hands or situations and just thinks "ZOMFG OUTS PUSH!"

[MadScientist]

Btn has higher hearts here very often. A 22/10 over 900 hands has a lot of big hearts in his range and isn't a tard enough to just float a set or two pair into two people when hearts are likely out there.
He could have AQ and be a tard just this one time though since the action isn't that clear.
If we could fold out bigger hearts, then we should push, imo as our equity goes way up.
However, since if we push, it seems likely that UTG will call if he has a set or two pair, then button will be priced in with big hearts, Kxhh, Qxhh.
On the other hand, if UTG has just an A, then he folds to a shove and button folds too which is good.
I guess I like a call and lead turn real strong if I make two pair or trips. If I make a flush I bet fold to strong action especially from button, I prolly look UTG up as he is unknown.

QUESTION: If the action had gone, bet, call UTG, button raises some, then a shove is real good right?

[Jay Riall]

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Who cares? We're getting like a million to one on a flop call.

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I care. I don't like taking the worst of it when there isn't much in the way of implied odds.

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You disagree with a ton of respected big winners on a lot of hands, and are very dismissive of their reasoning.


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Looool I missed this. Thank god for the ignore user feature.

[TheSalche]

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This is probably because 90% of SSNL doesn't bother to read hands or situations and just thinks "ZOMFG OUTS PUSH!"

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Mmm ... I think because of hand-reading we should be raising here, is button cold calling sets? TPTK? His cold-calling range should be weighted more towards bigger flush draws given his stats. KQh is a very likely hand for him.

I agree w/ others, stack sizes suggest a raise is better than a call, which is better than a shove. When we shove here we're probably only getting called by sets, if we put in a good sized raise (140 - 160ish?) then we probably still fold out a lot of hands, especially if UTG is weaker (i.e. AQ or something like that). Of course, if either of these guys has a set we're in trouble here.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

i shove

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super easy shove if you're going to play with these people a lot in the future, which you probably will be.
getting your shove called here by aj or aq or whatever whenever you either have a hand like this or a9 or 55 or w/e is kewl. not only that, but all the dead money in the pot makes this play +EV in a vacuum anyway.
calling here might be more +EV in a vacuum, but it's probably not gonna be in a vacuum.

[Speedlimits]

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Fold preflop if you aren't willing to raise here.

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wtf no.

[Speedlimits]

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super easy shove if you're going to play with these people a lot in the future, which you probably will be.
getting your shove called here by aj or aq or whatever whenever you either have a hand like this or a9 or 55 or w/e is kewl. not only that, but all the dead money in the pot makes this play +EV in a vacuum anyway.
calling here might be more +EV in a vacuum, but it's probably not gonna be in a vacuum.

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You realize shoving is a massive overbet. people need to stop and think instead of saying "super easy shove omg im 2+2errrrr!. anyways calling is clearly superior against BTN's range.

I'm not happy about how I played the hand, I raised it up to $150 and called BTN's push. He flipped over 55 and I didn't improve.