Get Your Calculators Out!

[mike l.]

two things:

--suited gappers are bad in games where it's aggro postflop. most 60 games are aggro postflop. you dont want to be drawing, espcially to non-nut hands, when it's going to be 4 bets on the flop and raised often on the turn. R. I. O.

--position matters more than you realise in spots like this. a simple example is the times you flop a flush but then a fourth flush card comes on the river. against many opponents they will check the river oop with something like JJ with the J high flush when you have been betting the whole way with a small flush. they will fear they were drawing dead and now check. but when you check to them oop on the river they will now correctly bet. that BB is pretty significant, esp. in a big pot against a donkey who you might feel compelled to call against with something like the 8 high flush.

the intuitive mediocre play is to call with 84s in this spot. the more nuanced, educated play is to release your hand and wait for a better spot to gamble with a marginal hand.

[Justin A]

mike,

this was not an aggressive postflop game. the hand i posted was an aberration. the game was far better than any 30 games running that night.

[andyfox]

Depends on the game. In 20-40, I'll play more hands because I know I can get to the turn or river cheaply; in 60-120, fewer because I'm going to have to put in too many bets, usually, on the flop with my vulnerable crap. 8-4 is a fold in 60-120 for me. Suited, schmooted. I let suited have more importance in more passive games.

Maybe the 60-120 is indeed more passive in Vegas, but I note Justin put in 5 bets on the flop.

[mike l.]

then your call is less bad. i would think youd want to avoid variance, but to each his own. enjoy!

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]

Depends on the game. In 20-40, I'll play more hands because I know I can get to the turn or river cheaply; in 60-120, fewer because I'm going to have to put in too many bets, usually, on the flop with my vulnerable crap. 8-4 is a fold in 60-120 for me. Suited, schmooted. I let suited have more importance in more passive games.

Maybe the 60-120 is indeed more passive in Vegas, but I note Justin put in 5 bets on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say in general the 60 game is fairly aggressive, but I'm usually not in it. If I'm in the game, it's because it's much softer than usual. This hand was really weird, it was usually much more passive. A screw came loose in MP's head, as he was normally quite passive but felt the need to raise and 4bet this flop with J7o.