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#61
09-03-2006, 10:38 PM
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Re: 200-400 Hand.
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the explanation, but when you say that button will check behind more on the turn, is that because against 2 calls he is more likely to be up against a hand and thus he wont bother bluffing nearly as much if he only got one caller? How often in limit is nobody going to have a pair in this spot? What should davids line be on the flop then if he held 88? [/ QUOTE ] David would probably check call on the flop and bet any safe looking turn cards (or else again check call or check fold). Against two callers AK is going to consider checking on the turn because it's much more likely he's going to get called down because someone has something they aren't folding. 
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#62
09-03-2006, 11:16 PM
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Re: 200-400 Hand.
easy call. with your "1.5 outs" of backdoor draws + an average of 3-4 real outs you have the pot odds to peel along with solid implied odds of hitting a backdoor draw. end of thread.
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#63
09-03-2006, 11:25 PM
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Re: 200-400 Hand.
[ QUOTE ]
+ an average of 3-4 real outs [/ QUOTE ] rofl
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#64
09-03-2006, 11:32 PM
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Re: 200-400 Hand.
I don't care what odds I'm getting. I'm not calling. For all I know, improving my hand could easily improve an opponent's hand further.
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#66
09-03-2006, 11:54 PM
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Re: 200-400 Hand.
6,842,934 games 1.937 secs 3,532,748 games/sec Board: Qd 4c 2s Dead: equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 16.0316 % 16.03% 00.00% { KdJd } Hand 2: 46.1345 % 45.05% 01.08% { 77+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ } Hand 3: 37.8338 % 36.75% 01.08% { JJ-88, 44, 22, AKs, A5s-A2s, KQs, Q9s+, AQo+, A5o-A2o, KQo, QJo }
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#67
09-03-2006, 11:54 PM
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Re: 200-400 Hand.
[ QUOTE ]
easy call. with your "1.5 outs" of backdoor draws [/ QUOTE ] why only 1.5?
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#68
09-04-2006, 12:09 AM
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Re: 200-400 Hand.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] easy call. with your "1.5 outs" of backdoor draws [/ QUOTE ] why only 1.5? [/ QUOTE ] i think vehn is saying JUST the BD draws are worth 1.5, and obviosuly the pair draws add to that.
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#69
09-04-2006, 12:28 AM
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Re: 200-400 Hand.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] easy call. with your "1.5 outs" of backdoor draws [/ QUOTE ] why only 1.5? [/ QUOTE ] i think vehn is saying JUST the BD draws are worth 1.5, and obviosuly the pair draws add to that. [/ QUOTE ] and i'm asking why the BD draws are only worth 1.5 EDIT: basically, i'm looking for a full analysis of the backdoor outs. i don't really know exactly how to do it, but i'll give it a shot and post in a bit. i'd give it a little more than 2 outs off the top of my head.
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#70
09-04-2006, 01:04 AM
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Re: 200-400 Hand.
I think the 1.5 outs for backdoor draws originated in SSHE (pg 103-104), speaking of which I just looked that up again to make sure I was remembering it correctly and the example in the book is very similar to the hand posted in this thread. This hand is slightly weaker, especially given the competition, but I think it's interesting we're discussing a 200/400 hand that highlights the same concept that's talked about in SSHE. There should be more to discuss here than how many outs a backdoor draw is worth though. Schneids brought up some interesting points that I've never really taken the time to think too much about.
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