Tell me I'm losing my mind: $22 Speed BOTS - Page 51

adrockuk · #**501** 04-13-2006, 07:05 AM

Surely this information going in a major newspaper is the last thing we want.

It's bad to occasionaly have bots in your game but it'd be worse if we had less people starting to play because they're scared of bots.

HesseJam · #**502** 04-13-2006, 07:29 AM

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I still dont see the problem with HUD. It simply makes multi-tabling easier. If I played just one table then I wouldn't need HUD as I would be taking notes firsthand on my opponents and would know the stats that HUD provides for me.

I also want to note that it's probably completely impossible to win 3/6 limit+ long term without HUD.

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Basically, what you are saying is that you make more money when using a HUD. This "more" comes out of whom's pocket?

Please understand that I know that the use of these instruments is allowed by many pokersites. Accordingly, I do not see their use "illegal". Same with frivolous law-suits advanced by unscrupolous lawyers. It's not illegal. Same with tricking uneducated people out of money because they don't read or comprehend the fine print of a contract. Perfectly legal! Whether it is "unethical" is just a matter of judgement.

I played the 200$ Bonus at Party up to 10-tabling .5/1 with the help of a HUD. I absolutely hated it. Again, this is a matter of personal opinion. But I also realized, that I came out slightly ahead only because there are still some people not using it. My decision was easily made. No longer play at Party.

I also want to be completely honest: I also play from time to time at Paradise where you can use a HUD but it is not immediate and somewhat cumbersome to set up through e-mail. You also do not see the hole cards after the hand. And I use the HUD there, which is way more questionable because I know that most of the competition does not manage to set it up. Since you can only play 4 tables at Paradise I could pay more effort, concentrate more and yield the same results without a HUD. But I am not doing it because I want to make my life easy and browse the internet and I don't get as much exhausted this way. So, if someone told me this was unethical I would have to agree. My motivation is a combination of greed and lazyness. Simple as that.

HesseJam · #**503** 04-13-2006, 07:33 AM

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Surely this information going in a major newspaper is the last thing we want.

It's bad to occasionaly have bots in your game but it'd be worse if we had less people starting to play because they're scared of bots.

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Face it, eventually, it's going to happen anyway. The paper guys are reading fora like these. Or they get pointers to threads like this one. This is not a secret society here.

adrockuk · #**504** 04-13-2006, 09:06 AM

...but it's not a good idea to try and encourage it.

It wouldn't be a good idea for someone to read Mack's post and then go and email a few nationals. That's all I was addressing.

I know I'm not going to say anything to anyone unless they give me the secret handshake and ask me about the health of the strawberries in the lake.

davehwm · #**505** 04-13-2006, 09:22 AM

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No, but isn't it legal to take notes on like a notepad of your opponents at a live table? Honestly Ive never even played live in a casino so I wouldn't know.

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In this case, you're using a machine to calculate statistics at a speed that is not humanly possible. Therein lies my problem.

Freudian · #**506** 04-13-2006, 09:41 AM

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The main point is that if you aren't using A HUD in limit or NL you most likely will not be a long term winner. Im sure 90% of players fit this description. A very small handful of players can own the tables without a HUD.

I do want to say that I would think poker would be alot better if there was no such thing as a HUD as the TAGs would have a harder time to play agaisnt each other if there were no stats sitting in front of them, thus generating more variance in the poker money pool.

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I think you are overestimating the HUDs here.

I play without HUDs whenever I visit my parents house. I have seen no difference in results or difficulty. It just forces you to pay a bit more attention, something that is far from impossible for a human being. This is four or fivetabling btw. I don't get great reads when playing that many tables but a HUD isn't giving me great reads either.

jackaaron · #**507** 04-13-2006, 09:53 AM

With Pokertracker, and HUDs and so on you are able to gain more information about your opponents. In fact, you can buy information about opponents and load it to your PT db, or whatever way you wish to gain info on people without being at the table...something you can't do in live play. In addition, you can get subscriptions to see exactly how well each player does at each game, and whether they have positive ROI, and so on. Yes, all these you can't do live.

But, there has to be some type of concession.

You cannot see your opponents. You cannot gain the physical tells that you can live. You have to have some form of ID'ing your opponents style before you sit down just the same way you can when you meet a familiar face that you play against. This is how the two entities are so different, and so, these pieces of software are not unethical in any way.

At some point, though, people cross the line. They have enormous amounts of information about people they have not played against, or they gain the information without playing against them, and they have enormous amounts of information about how well a person is performing at any particular game.

That part of it IS cheating, and IS unethical. Gaining HUGE amounts of information (not just a tip) on a player without having played against him in the hands you have info on him for is cheating.

2Fast · #**508** 04-13-2006, 11:01 AM

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That was awesome chat about ragra on Speed #1185467.

MINETZ509: he is an automated bot
HP Shovecraft: so am i
MINETZ509: he is.
MINETZ509: im not kidding.
HP Shovecraft: does not compute.

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"HP Shovecraft" - geniuis. As others have said this sucks - I knew poker was rigged! I'm instashoving AQo with limpers 100% of the time now I guess...(but will withhold like t175 from the push)

RedBaron__ · #**509** 04-13-2006, 12:02 PM

Wouldnt it be easy for big poker publisher like 2+2 to contact PP and get an proper reply about the bots. I bet they would listen some of the big names bihind the company [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

davehwm · #**510** 04-13-2006, 12:26 PM

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Wouldnt it be easy for big poker publisher like 2+2 to contact PP and get an proper reply about the bots. I bet they would listen some of the big names bihind the company [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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I doubt that 2+2 wants to get into those kind of politics with the major online poker rooms.