Israel's Attack on Lebanon and Hezbollah

[Sniper]

The IAF resumed its attacks in the Gaza Strip early Saturday morning, striking a building in which it said weapons were stored.

It also struck an area in the southern Gaza Strip near the Egyptian border in which tunnels were dug to smuggle weapons and terror suspects.

[Howard Beale]

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'...if Hezbollah is largely not hiding amongst them'. My own admitted prejudices may be causing me to read this as you saying: 'To me, it brings into question why Israel has racked up hundreds of civilian deaths since Hezbollah is largely not hiding amongst them'.

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I used "if" because I can't possibly know whether Hezbollah is there or not. The Salon article notes that the military wing of Hezbollah does not reside in civilian areas but some of the political members and sympathizers do.

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And what does 'largely' really mean? You make it sound like an excuse in case Hezbollah is proven to have been hiding amongst civilians so that it can be said 'Yes, well, not largely enough to account for all the civilian deaths'.

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Say you have 1 Hezbollah fighter living in a town and 399 living outside of the town. Is Israel justified in killing 100 civilians to get to that 1 fighter?

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I would've expected civilian casualties in the many thousands if these were apartment buildings deliberately targeted by Israel without warning.

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IIRC, southern Beirut is mostly Hezbollah so there probably wouldn't be many civilians killed.

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As I said, I have my own prejudices. I don't like putting words in people's mouth and I thank you for the reply, it has clarified your position for me. Hopefully nobody will ever justify killing massive numbers of civilians to kill one target, certainly I wouldn't.

[BCPVP]

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and what evidence does this link give that they were a) civilians and not HZB and b) intentionally targeted?

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1) Links. Plural. This isn't an isolated incident.
2) Do these look like HZB fighters to you?
It was the scene that members of the extended Shaito family said they had feared most, the real reason they had held out for days in their village of Tireh in southern Lebanon, terrified of the Israeli bombardment, but more terrified of what might happen if they risked leaving. On Sunday they gave up their stand, and all 18 members crammed into the family’s white Mazda minivan. They planned to head north toward the relative safety of Beirut...An Israeli rocket, which Lebanese officials said was likely fired from a helicopter, slammed into the center of the Shaitos’ van as it sped round a bend a few miles west of their village, and the van crashed into a hillside. Three occupants were killed: an uncle, Mohammad; the grandmother, Nazira; and a Syrian man who had guarded their home. The missile also critically wounded Mrs. Shaito and her sister. Eleven others suffered less severe wounds...The Shaitos came from a farming village about five miles from the Israeli border in a region known for tobacco, citrus and olive crops. They had waved a white flag from the van, signifiying to Israeli aircraft that they were non-threatening, Mr. Shaito told reporters later...Bombing victims, witnesses and officials interviewed in the area on Sunday said Israeli warplanes hit people escaping by vehicle from their villages at least six times in a day of fierce bombardments. Lebanese Red Cross ambulance drivers complained about narrowly avoiding Israeli fire themselves as they cleared out the wounded, and a Lebanese freelance photographer, Layal Najib, 23, was killed when an Israeli missile struck near her car, about five miles from near the scene of the Shaito family bombing...Minutes before Red Cross ambulances carted away the Shaito family, the Suroor family barreled down the road headed toward Tyre, with the Zabad family right behind.

When the Zabads spotted a wounded man on the road, they stopped and picked him up in their Nissan sport utility vehicle. They stopped again to pick up two men who had been attacked on a motorcycle and got even farther behind the Suroors.

Suddenly a missile hit the Suroors’ Mercedes sedan, killing Mohammad Suroor, the father, and Darwhish Mdaihli, a relative, and severely burning Mohammad’s son, Mahmoud, 8, and wounding his two brothers and sister.

As soon as the Zabads saw the car hit, they sped past, hoping to get to the Najm Hospital, less than a mile away. But a minute later a missile struck near them, setting the car on fire, and the family jumped out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/24/wo...pagewanted=all

Are they all HZB, Copernicus?

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If not, I wouldnt want to be in your family

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And I wouldn't want you.

[BCPVP]

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Hopefully nobody will ever justify killing massive numbers of civilians to kill one target

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Too late...

[Howard Beale]

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Hopefully nobody will ever justify killing massive numbers of civilians to kill one target

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Too late...

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Sometimes people speak too quickly in the heat of the moment and upon reflection would like to qualify their statements.

[Copernicus]

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and what evidence does this link give that they were a) civilians and not HZB and b) intentionally targeted?

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1) Links. Plural. This isn't an isolated incident.
2) Do these look like HZB fighters to you?
It was the scene that members of the extended Shaito family said they had feared most, the real reason they had held out for days in their village of Tireh in southern Lebanon, terrified of the Israeli bombardment, but more terrified of what might happen if they risked leaving. On Sunday they gave up their stand, and all 18 members crammed into the family’s white Mazda minivan. They planned to head north toward the relative safety of Beirut...An Israeli rocket, which Lebanese officials said was likely fired from a helicopter, slammed into the center of the Shaitos’ van as it sped round a bend a few miles west of their village, and the van crashed into a hillside. Three occupants were killed: an uncle, Mohammad; the grandmother, Nazira; and a Syrian man who had guarded their home. The missile also critically wounded Mrs. Shaito and her sister. Eleven others suffered less severe wounds...The Shaitos came from a farming village about five miles from the Israeli border in a region known for tobacco, citrus and olive crops. They had waved a white flag from the van, signifiying to Israeli aircraft that they were non-threatening, Mr. Shaito told reporters later...Bombing victims, witnesses and officials interviewed in the area on Sunday said Israeli warplanes hit people escaping by vehicle from their villages at least six times in a day of fierce bombardments. Lebanese Red Cross ambulance drivers complained about narrowly avoiding Israeli fire themselves as they cleared out the wounded, and a Lebanese freelance photographer, Layal Najib, 23, was killed when an Israeli missile struck near her car, about five miles from near the scene of the Shaito family bombing...Minutes before Red Cross ambulances carted away the Shaito family, the Suroor family barreled down the road headed toward Tyre, with the Zabad family right behind.

When the Zabads spotted a wounded man on the road, they stopped and picked him up in their Nissan sport utility vehicle. They stopped again to pick up two men who had been attacked on a motorcycle and got even farther behind the Suroors.

Suddenly a missile hit the Suroors’ Mercedes sedan, killing Mohammad Suroor, the father, and Darwhish Mdaihli, a relative, and severely burning Mohammad’s son, Mahmoud, 8, and wounding his two brothers and sister.

As soon as the Zabads saw the car hit, they sped past, hoping to get to the Najm Hospital, less than a mile away. But a minute later a missile struck near them, setting the car on fire, and the family jumped out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/24/wo...pagewanted=all

Are they all HZB, Copernicus?

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If not, I wouldnt want to be in your family

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And I wouldn't want you.

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Where is the evidence that they were intentionally targeted?

[NapHead]

Some posters on this board appear under the delusion or at least claim to be, that civilian casualties can be avoided in war.

In regards to the situation in Lebanon, Retired General Lewis MacKenzie, a former commander of UN troops, who has spent time as a peacekeeper in Gaza and the Middle East had this to say:

"But with the amount of firepower that has gone into Lebanon over the last couple of weeks, the death toll is unbelievably low in accordance with the delivery of that firepower which means the targets are being selected pretty darn closely."

Interview

[Sniper]

Excerpted from UNIFIL report July 28th...

There were two direct impacts on UNIFIL positions from the Israeli side in the past 24 hours. Eight artillery and mortar rounds impacted inside an Indian battalion position in the area of Hula, causing extensive material damage, but no casualties. One artillery round impacted the parameter wall of the UNIFIL Headquarters in Naqoura. There were five other incidents of firing close to UN positions from the Israeli side. It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of five UN positions at Alma Ash Shab, At Tiri, Bayt Yahoun, Brashit, and Tibnin.

The number of troops in some Ghanaian battalion positions is somewhat reduced because of the increased safety risk for the troops due to frequent incidents of Hezbollah firing from the vicinity of the positions, and shelling and bombardment close to the positions from the Israeli side.

It was decided to relocate temporarily all unarmed military observers of the Observer Group Lebanon (OGL) from the patrol bases in the area of Marwahin and Markaba to UNIFIL positions. An OGL patrol base in Marun Al Ras remained unoccupied following the incident of 23 July, in which one military observer was seriously wounded by Hezbollah small arms fire, and the OGL patrol base in Khiyam was completely destroyed by Israeli aerial bombardment on 25 July.

[Sniper]

Condoleezza Rice leaves Malaysia and heads for Israel (Reuters)

[BCPVP]

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Where is the evidence that they were intentionally targeted?

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Either they're being intentionally targeted or Israel is being so reckless that they don't care. I believe I've told you at least once already that I think it's the latter.