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#42
04-03-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: No Limit Bots ? Kwickfish says yes.
[ QUOTE ]
Bots are terrifically exploitable if you know they're a bot. I loved the limit bots at UB. NL bots are a dream come true. [/ QUOTE ] [x} ignorance [x] arrogance [ QUOTE ] What is this magical human ability that is outside the reach of a bot? [/ QUOTE ] Correct. There is none. Quite a few are difficutl to code now (like chatting). Playing good poker isnt outside today programming techniques. [ QUOTE ] i dont think a winning lagbot could be made [/ QUOTE ] [x] ignorance [ QUOTE ] I really hope that, at some point, the sites are willing and able to combat and eliminate this threat. [/ QUOTE ] I hope too but once winning programs are written its the quick way to end of income from online poker. Players coudl play themselves and use computer analysis. Such things killed money chess tournaments online. [ QUOTE ] Am I alone in having a hard time believing that thats true? [/ QUOTE ] It may not be true now but the only question is "when" not "if". 
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#43
04-03-2007, 04:44 PM
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Re: No Limit Bots ? Kwickfish says yes.
The glaring issue with bots is that, ultimately, the programming is left to a human - a human must decide how to interpret statistical databases and how to handle anomalous behavior from its opponents. As we have seen recently with chess bots, however, powerful new adaptive algorithms exist which are capable of beating even grandmasters. And if it can be done in chess, a game consisting of far more permutations than poker, then surely it is conceivable to create a no-limit bot capable of beating the highest games.
Oh, and bots don't tilt.
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#44
04-03-2007, 04:44 PM
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Re: No Limit Bots ? Kwickfish says yes.
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#45
04-03-2007, 05:29 PM
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Re: No Limit Bots ? Kwickfish says yes.
[ QUOTE ]
The glaring issue with bots is that, ultimately, the programming is left to a human - a human must decide how to interpret statistical databases and how to handle anomalous behavior from its opponents. As we have seen recently with chess bots, however, powerful new adaptive algorithms exist which are capable of beating even grandmasters. And if it can be done in chess, a game consisting of far more permutations than poker, then surely it is conceivable to create a no-limit bot capable of beating the highest games. Oh, and bots don't tilt. [/ QUOTE ] chess is a game of known information, poker is not.
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#46
04-03-2007, 05:45 PM
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Re: No Limit Bots ? Kwickfish says yes.
The issue isn't so much that an individual bot might be good - I'm not convinced that there's any reason a bot has any inherent advantage over a human player just because it has access to a wide range of statistics. I can think of reasons why relying wholly on these stats is potentially a disadvantage. Anyway, as above, poker is not a game of complete information.
The real problem is proliferation - both because a single good winning bot can be multiplied infinitely, and because even marginal, break-even TAG bots can be multiplied endlessly (e.g. to get rakeback). And of course the bots can play 24/7 and never get tired. Ultimately it just means a higher and higher proportion of tight, generally decent/difficult players relative to fish. Which is the real problem, not that the bots are fantastically good.
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#48
04-03-2007, 06:09 PM
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Re: No Limit Bots ? Kwickfish says yes.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Bots are terrifically exploitable if you know they're a bot. I loved the limit bots at UB. NL bots are a dream come true. [/ QUOTE ] [x} ignorance [x] arrogance [/ QUOTE ] [x] results They used to sit down at 1-handed 6-max 10/20 tables. This was about 5 months back. They were terrifically exploitable then (and all played extremely similarly). I doubt they've become absolute monsters in the 5 months since.
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#49
04-03-2007, 06:13 PM
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Re: No Limit Bots ? Kwickfish says yes.
[ QUOTE ]
chess is a game of known information, poker is not [/ QUOTE ] True. But that isn't a real counterargument... Nobody can deny that the analytic power of modern computers dwarfs that of any high stakes player. The poker/chess analogy is valid only inasmuchas it illustrates the capacity of computers to process vast quantities of data.
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#50
04-03-2007, 06:41 PM
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Re: No Limit Bots ? Kwickfish says yes.
[ QUOTE ]
The glaring issue with bots is that, ultimately, the programming is left to a human - a human must decide how to interpret statistical databases and how to handle anomalous behavior from its opponents [/ QUOTE ] This is not correct. There are programming techniques which allows to write a program which play a game which programmer dont know anything about. Some of those techniques were used to write backgammon programs (which are bette than best humans).
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