Israel's Attack on Lebanon and Hezbollah

[ACPlayer]

The main point made in that article was that mixing with civilians on their own side exposes them to betrayal and as such is a security concern.

Conjecture --> If Hizb had precision guided rockets they may not cause as much civil damage. However, looking from the perspective of the dug in and embattled hizb --- not doing anything while the enemy fires hundreds of bombs killing many civilians --- is a political disaster.

[ACPlayer]

I think I got it from http://www.juancole.com.

btw, this side is definitely not pro-zionist (though it also condemns the palestinian tactics).

[Copernicus]

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The main point made in that article was that mixing with civilians on their own side exposes them to betrayal and as such is a security concern.
Conjecture --> If Hizb had precision guided rockets they may not cause as much civil damage. However, looking from the perspective of the dug in and embattled hizb --- not doing anything while the enemy fires hundreds of bombs killing many civilians --- is a political disaster.

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A dubious assertion at best, since HZB's human shields are in HZB strongholds...Southern Lebanon and Southern Beirut...areas where they have focused their social programs and have the loyalty of the Lebanese.

[BCPVP]

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BCVP,

Your question is valid, in bringing up the proportionality of response to that of injury inflicted. But it is equally valid to consider the degree to which such a populace is logistically supporting such fighters.

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I won't disagree with that. According to the Salon article (and if others have contradicting evidence, I'm all ears), Hezbollah fighters stay away from civilians out of distrust. So whatever support the "populace" is giving Hezbollah probably isn't much.

That brings up another question. Does the punishment fit the "crime" (support)?

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Why do you accept a single Salon article that provides no factual support for its claim over what is generally acknowledged and as far as I know is uncontested by anyone including HZB itself?

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You didnt answer the question. The article provides no evidence, just makes an unsubtantiated claim that conflicts with what, outside that article is undenied by HZB despte being accused of seem constantly. Why is contradictory evidence needed?

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1) I don't think any evidence will convince you otherwise. You've made up your mind.
2) I asked if people had evidence to the contrary. If you have some, don't hesitate to provide it. I'm open to the idea that the article is wrong. For someone whining about a lack of evidence, you certainly aren't providing any.

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In other words, you have no answer. Google "hezballah guerilla" and you'll have plenty of confirmation.

Or try this from that great defender of Israel the UN

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According to you, we shouldn't take anything from the U.N. at face value. And what evidence do they have that Hezbollah fighters are trying to hide among the citizens? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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Non-responsive. There are dozens of similar statements if you bother to look. I told you how. Now either answer why the Salon article, with no substantiating evidence carries more weight with you, if you can.

If you cant respond to that specific question youre in the same bin as Cyrus.

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I googlenews'd "hezbollah hiding among civilians" and I've either gotten links to the Salon article and anti-Israel sites or the same UN person's sound bite. For now, the Salon article seems to be the most indepth about the subject. But I'm open to any counter evidence. So far, all I have is a sound bite from a U.N. official (who works for an organization you've told me not to take at face value).

Do you have any other evidence that Hezbollah fighters are hiding among the civilians?

Keep in mind that I am not trying to defend Hezbollah. Those launching rockets on civilians in Israel are evil people.

[ACPlayer]

Unfortunately, I have seen very little reporting about hiz human shields. I have seen lots of accusations from vested interests about the same, which is not the same.

This is the first report I have seen from a reporter on the ground (apparently only recently have droves of reporters gone to lebanon).

However, the security angle makes much sense. Note that a number of Palestinian terrorists have been assasinated by Israel on tips from the local population. This should be a legitimate concern for the Hiz and for the Palestinians.

[BCPVP]

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The main point made in that article was that mixing with civilians on their own side exposes them to betrayal and as such is a security concern.
Conjecture --> If Hizb had precision guided rockets they may not cause as much civil damage. However, looking from the perspective of the dug in and embattled hizb --- not doing anything while the enemy fires hundreds of bombs killing many civilians --- is a political disaster.

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A dubious assertion at best, since HZB's human shields are in HZB strongholds...Southern Lebanon and Southern Beirut...areas where they have focused their social programs and have the loyalty of the Lebanese.

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Just wondering: did you read the entire Salon article ?

[Copernicus]

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The main point made in that article was that mixing with civilians on their own side exposes them to betrayal and as such is a security concern.
Conjecture --> If Hizb had precision guided rockets they may not cause as much civil damage. However, looking from the perspective of the dug in and embattled hizb --- not doing anything while the enemy fires hundreds of bombs killing many civilians --- is a political disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

A dubious assertion at best, since HZB's human shields are in HZB strongholds...Southern Lebanon and Southern Beirut...areas where they have focused their social programs and have the loyalty of the Lebanese.

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Just wondering: did you read the entire Salon article ?

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Yes i did. And I won repsond to anything else of yours until you answer my direct question. And you apparently arent looking very hard.

[BCPVP]

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The main point made in that article was that mixing with civilians on their own side exposes them to betrayal and as such is a security concern.
Conjecture --> If Hizb had precision guided rockets they may not cause as much civil damage. However, looking from the perspective of the dug in and embattled hizb --- not doing anything while the enemy fires hundreds of bombs killing many civilians --- is a political disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

A dubious assertion at best, since HZB's human shields are in HZB strongholds...Southern Lebanon and Southern Beirut...areas where they have focused their social programs and have the loyalty of the Lebanese.

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Just wondering: did you read the entire Salon article ?

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Yes i did. And I won repsond to anything else of yours until you answer my direct question. And you apparently arent looking very hard.

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"For now, the Salon article seems to be the most indepth about the subject. But I'm open to any counter evidence. "

I've answered already. Now you answer me. Do you have any other evidence that Hezbollah fighters are hiding among civilians?

edit: This is getting ridiculous. Regardless of whether Hezbollah is hiding among civilians, that doesn't justify Israel's tactics. Air and artillery seem like the messy way. Bombing probably won't get rid of Hezbollah.

[NapHead]

IDF soldiers involved in the battle in Bnit Jbail said up to 30 fighters were firing on their position from the town mosque, the village's tallest structure.

A senior Hizbullah official, Mahmoud Komati, told The Associated Press Wednesday that Israeli forces had managed to seize a few points inside Bint Jbail, but had not yet taken the town center.

But Komati denied fighters were taking cover in a mosque and suggested they may be civilians. "Fighters don't take shelter in mosques. They fight on the battlefield. If they can't, they retreat but not to mosques."

Rahhal, the Hizbullah spokesman, angrily responded to a question about the mosque refuge. "What's the Israeli's business that our fighters were in the mosque? Maybe they were praying at the time!"

Maybe they were praying

Draw your own conclusions.

Or if you prefer, you can read the chief UN humanitarian's view where he blasted Hezbollah for blending in among women and children.

UN chief accuses Hezbollah of cowardice

[Copernicus]

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IDF soldiers involved in the battle in Bnit Jbail said up to 30 fighters were firing on their position from the town mosque, the village's tallest structure.

A senior Hizbullah official, Mahmoud Komati, told The Associated Press Wednesday that Israeli forces had managed to seize a few points inside Bint Jbail, but had not yet taken the town center.

But Komati denied fighters were taking cover in a mosque and suggested they may be civilians. "Fighters don't take shelter in mosques. They fight on the battlefield. If they can't, they retreat but not to mosques."

Rahhal, the Hizbullah spokesman, angrily responded to a question about the mosque refuge. "What's the Israeli's business that our fighters were in the mosque? Maybe they were praying at the time!"

Maybe they were praying

Draw your own conclusions.

Or if you prefer, you can read the chief UN humanitarian's view where he blasted Hezbollah for blending in among women and children.

UN chief accuses Hezbollah of cowardice

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The UN isnt good enough for him. He'd rather accept a claim in an unsubstantiated claim in a salon article that doesnt even have a logical basis. Until he explains why that carries anywhere near the weight of numerous citations, including yours, he's on ignore along with Cyrus...rare company indeed.