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#31
08-25-2007, 03:15 PM
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Re: God\'s Warriors (CNN)
You ninja responded to me! lol. I didn't like the words I chose so I deleted this post to come back to it later. Thankfully, your post still manages to miss the point *and* sound crazy so I don't have to say anything. Thanks!
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#32
08-25-2007, 03:46 PM
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Re: God\'s Warriors (CNN)
[ QUOTE ]
So there is scientific data from the 1930's which indicate some type of biological "superiority" of the white "race" and/or the inferiority of Jews? Cite, please. [/ QUOTE ] If you are actually interested, and not using debate tricks, you could start with Stephen J. Gould's The Mismeasure of Man, or keywords in Amazon "eugenics" or "Nazi science," or "race science." It is an entire branch of science. It was the dominant paradigm in the US and Europe until the Holocaust. [ QUOTE ] one might interpret survival of the fitness within evolution to imply the ethical principle that we should murder those individuals less "fit." I claim a system of ethics justified on such grounds is profoundly irrational, just like the Nazis. [/ QUOTE ] If you define hundreds of thousands of researchers in labs as not practicing science because their impact is evil, then yes, you win the argument. Rationalism cannot ever be wicked, because if it becomes so, it ceases to be rational. Declare victory. And how are the Neocon's not rational? How about Henry Kissinger, who has no discernible faith, how was he following mysticism, not rationalism, when he inflicted a holocaust on South East Asia? He and Nixon specified that the Christmas bombing of Hanoi was part of their "madman theory," a very calculated attempt to make the Vietnamese think the White House was so irrational it might do anything, maybe even nukes. That is Machiavellian calculation, not mysticism.
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#33
08-25-2007, 05:24 PM
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Re: God\'s Warriors (CNN)
[ QUOTE ]
your post still manages to miss the point *and* sound crazy so I don't have to say anything. [/ QUOTE ] 
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#34
08-25-2007, 06:06 PM
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Re: God\'s Warriors (CNN)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] embracing rationality in that respect would be a strong necessary, but not sufficient condition, to end religious motivated violence. [/ QUOTE ] Rationality didn't work for the Khmer Rouge, Stalin, or the Jacobins. Rationality underlay Nazi master race science -- some of which they got from US researchers. [/ QUOTE ] If you actually think communism and Nazism reflect rational philosophies and are an example of adherence to reason... then there is nothing I can say to you. Quite scary. Suffice to say religion isn't by only manifestation of irrationality. [/ QUOTE ] I think that is intellectualy dishonest. Any atheistic philosopher worth his salt will come to admit the rationality underlying most of Nazism and Stalinism. My compatriot intellectual genius, Slavoj Zizek, describes himself as an orthodox lacanian Stalinist. Just because we have been trained like Pavlov's dogs to go hysterical at the mention of Nazis, does not mean they weren't rational. On the contrary, we are the ones acting irrationally in response to them.
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#35
08-25-2007, 07:10 PM
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Re: God\'s Warriors (CNN)
Guys, please note that there is a difference between rationale and preference.
Logic and reason are about knowing the truth, preference is about choosing what you want. Reason can help you know how to attain your goals, but no goal can ever be irrational.
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#36
08-25-2007, 07:11 PM
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Re: God\'s Warriors (CNN)
[ QUOTE ]
Just because we have been trained like Pavlov's dogs to go hysterical at the mention of Nazis, does not mean they weren't rational. On the contrary, we are the ones acting irrationally in response to them. [/ QUOTE ] nazi is too general a term. Are you saying you think hitler was particularly rational? What about Stalin? If either of them weren't rational then were their supporters rationally following irrational leaders or unaware their leaders were irrational? chez
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#37
08-25-2007, 07:54 PM
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Re: God\'s Warriors (CNN)
[ QUOTE ]
nazi is too general a term. Are you saying you think hitler was particularly rational? What about Stalin? If either of them weren't rational then were their supporters rationally following irrational leaders or unaware their leaders were irrational? [/ QUOTE ] Stalin, Hitler, were about power. Power corrupts and to some absolutely. For Stalin it was rational to kill his enemies and therefore his was the rationality of the gun. Hitler is similar and one could say that politics is about defeating ones opponents and the means can be rationally justified.
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#38
08-25-2007, 07:58 PM
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Re: God\'s Warriors (CNN)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] nazi is too general a term. Are you saying you think hitler was particularly rational? What about Stalin? If either of them weren't rational then were their supporters rationally following irrational leaders or unaware their leaders were irrational? [/ QUOTE ] Stalin, Hitler, were about power. Power corrupts and to some absolutely. For Stalin it was rational to kill his enemies and therefore his was the rationality of the gun. Hitler is similar and one could say that politics is about defeating ones opponents and the means can be rationally justified. [/ QUOTE ] and the astrology, invading russia, bombing cities instead of airfields etc etc - acts of a rational man seeking power? chez
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#39
08-25-2007, 08:06 PM
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Re: God\'s Warriors (CNN)
[ QUOTE ]
and the astrology, invading russia, bombing cities instead of airfields etc etc - acts of a rational man seeking power? [/ QUOTE ] Sure there are bits of mysticism or irrationality to point to. But you are not addressing the argument that logic and rationality are still ready assistants to power and wickedness, as in the many examples given.
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