Caesars (130.) KTs street by street.

[potamophobia]

Tough spot.

It goes back to what he thinks you have. Honestly, I wouldnt know what you held, but I wouldnt think it is top pair. If I had KK or 99, I would probably bet a smaller amount and hope you call with an underpair to the K.

The problem is I dont think he has TT, JJ, QQ anymore. These hands have a lot of showdown value, and would probably be check/called. Even if he had AA or AK I would expect a smaller bet.

This bet looks like he wants you to go away. He thinks you are weak and that he can buy the pot. Maybe he has AQs or AJs and feels like you will fold TT here.

Would definitely like to hear results

[registrar]

I'd really want to call and I'm not very good at folding once we get to the turn so I'd probably chat him up and call unless he got chatty back.

[RichC.]

I think he's shoving QQ/JJ a lot since he wont put you on a K most of the time here. Regardless of your PF action, i dont mind the call too much, you have slow played TP by not betting the flop and only calling the turn. I'm only worried about a couple hands really, a better K like KQ/KJ (doubtful given your read), AK, KK, and AA. 99 and any 2 is not really in his UTG range here. I think I'm calling.

[BarryLyndon]

I think that KQs is in his range and he's very excited that you might have KJ or K10. I think that with QQ/JJ he checks here. A lot depends on how he read your call on the turn, I suppose. If you think he thinks that you like calling light with 1010 or a lower pair, then call. If you think he's not thinking about that at all, then fold.

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that KQs is in his range and he's very excited that you might have KJ or K10. I think that with QQ/JJ he checks here. A lot depends on how he read your call on the turn, I suppose. If you think he thinks that you like calling light with 1010 or a lower pair, then call. If you think he's not thinking about that at all, then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

He won't generally instapush KQ/KJ here I would suggest. That's why I want to call.

[BarryLyndon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that KQs is in his range and he's very excited that you might have KJ or K10. I think that with QQ/JJ he checks here. A lot depends on how he read your call on the turn, I suppose. If you think he thinks that you like calling light with 1010 or a lower pair, then call. If you think he's not thinking about that at all, then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

He won't generally instapush KQ/KJ here I would suggest. That's why I want to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well...In my experience when I felt like I was playing like an "old nit," if I saw someone call me on the turn when I had KQ, I would immediately think "OMG, my king is better than his" and get it in nervously and fast on the river. The other thing is that if he has an inkling that Cornell is one of those smart-ass young internet players, he may be just dying to trap Cornell by waiting until the turn and then doing a "quick" move on the river to throw him off / get him to call his K10. Then he can tell his old-nit friends that Cornell called with K10 and he knew he'd get him to call with a weak king/small pair because he doesn't know how to play.

Barry.

[LuckyLloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
If you think he's not thinking about that at all, then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hammer. Nail. Head.

In the OP, hero noted that he didn't think either villain was paying too much attention to how he had been playing. The inference is that both guys are really just playing their own cards.

- He isn't sitting there wondering about how light villain usually calls.

- In my experience, guys that just play their own cards will rarely shove pocket pairs on boards that contain overcards (they are more likely to check call in this spot).

- Given what we heard about this guy I don't think he has AQ / AJ. And I can't think why he would be worried about being bullied or pushed around if he has only played a couple of hands, and hasn't taken a beat or had to make a big laydown.


Yeah, finding a fold after you persisted to the river is hard. Doesn't make it wrong. Just muck it.

[adanthar]

Cornell,

What does your command of the table look like on this river?

fold pf x 17

[Black Aces 518]

[ QUOTE ]

Level 4
200/400/25

SB - 8,000
BB - 12,000
UTG - 9,700
Hero has 11,000

Hero has K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the CO.
'The Old Guy' raises to 1200 UTG, Hero Calls, BB calls.

Flop (3800): K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB checks, 'The Old Guy' checks, Hero checks

Turn (3800): 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks, Old guy bets 2,000, Hero calls, BB folds.

River (7800): 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Old guy instashoves for 6,500 more; Hero...?


I will give my thoughts on all streets later

[/ QUOTE ]

superinstaturbomuck

[Deadnutz]

Whoa, didn't expect that.

I can't see old-nit doing that with QQ, JJ unless he really
thinks you hit the 9 and will call him. Even so, I would expect him to take a moment before betting.

I can't see him doing that with KK since he has the nuts and
even nits understand how to value bet nut hands on the river.

That would only leave me with AA or AK. I think he might play it this way. But from your read, I would think that he
would most likely play both hands straight-forward.

So now, I might have to change my preflop read to include AQ and maybe AJs. Those hands make the most sense actually.

1) Check whiffed flop- no one bet
2) Put out a feeler bet, get called
3) River 2, u-oh don't have squat and
the pot is big... ALL-IN!!!

Damn, now I'm leaning towards calling. I think he realy
believes that you hit the 9 and his QQ, JJ is good, or he doesn't have squat and that is the only way he can win.

Call