Got caught with 2 Full Tilt accounts.

[Synergistic Explosions]

I won a few bucks in their freerolls so I did play some cash games with it. I figured that would make me already a real money player at their site, so unable to get a new account.

Never deposited or withdrew though.

[Our House]

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What would you do if you spent thousands of dollars promoting Full Tilt as an affiliate, and they suddenly started moving all of your signups off to different affiliates so they could get rakeback?

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Give rakeback or wish I had taken the per sign-up plan. Part of taking a % is taking the risk when the business changes.

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The business didn't change as much as you think it did. We still only represent a smallish percentage of the poker community. Don't let the fact that you frequent 2+2 jade you from the rest of the world.

And, even if the business did change, doesn't mean that business ethics should change. FullTilt has an agreement with its affiliates (many of whom were around for a LONNNG time and helped build the site from the ground up). They aren't looking to sever ties with those people just because some 2+2ers demand rakeback.

It's not that they don't want your business; they do. They realize that some people won't play without rakeback and they realize that they're losing money (they're in a lose-lose situation until some agreements are made between FT and the huge "fish-bringing" affiliates). What they have to decide is a lesser of two evils. At the moment, that decision lies in denying rakeback to players with existing accounts.

I'm sure they're involved in some serious negotiations with old affiliates who have inactive, rakeback wanting players. Let them work it out and expect something to come of it.

Also, the per-signup plan sucks balls.

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Stop being greedy and give the people you are taking advantage of by not offering them rakeback when they get rakeback anywhere else rakeback. If the business hasn't changed so much, why do you screw the few people who care and are actually making you the most money? Wouldn't you rather get 70% of what you are getting from them now then send them over to Pokerstars.

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LOL, it's not me. I DO give my players rakeback.

I'm just saying that I understand the situation that non-rb affiliates are in because I was one on party for 4 years. There's a ton of marketing, hard work, and effort involved when you set up a business like that. If YOU put all that work into it for years and someone came along and stole your customers by breaching and/or asking a site to breach your agreement, you'd be pretty pissed.

FullTilt also understands the situation and they're doing what they can to work things out in a way that's fair for everyone.

[magus]

As far as I know, they don't have enough actual information about you to identify a second account until after you've already deposited or withdrawn money. Worst case senario, they will close your account after your first withdrawl (and withdraw all your money), wall_st said this happened to him.

[Gregg777]

I think that's the worst case scenario.

Most likely they will see you never made a deposit or withdrawal and not even worry about it.

[jrbick]

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What would you do if you spent thousands of dollars promoting Full Tilt as an affiliate, and they suddenly started moving all of your signups off to different affiliates so they could get rakeback?

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Give rakeback or wish I had taken the per sign-up plan. Part of taking a % is taking the risk when the business changes.

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The business didn't change as much as you think it did. We still only represent a smallish percentage of the poker community. Don't let the fact that you frequent 2+2 jade you from the rest of the world.

And, even if the business did change, doesn't mean that business ethics should change. FullTilt has an agreement with its affiliates (many of whom were around for a LONNNG time and helped build the site from the ground up). They aren't looking to sever ties with those people just because some 2+2ers demand rakeback.

It's not that they don't want your business; they do. They realize that some people won't play without rakeback and they realize that they're losing money (they're in a lose-lose situation until some agreements are made between FT and the huge "fish-bringing" affiliates). What they have to decide is a lesser of two evils. At the moment, that decision lies in denying rakeback to players with existing accounts.

I'm sure they're involved in some serious negotiations with old affiliates who have inactive, rakeback wanting players. Let them work it out and expect something to come of it.

Also, the per-signup plan sucks balls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop being greedy and give the people you are taking advantage of by not offering them rakeback when they get rakeback anywhere else rakeback. If the business hasn't changed so much, why do you screw the few people who care and are actually making you the most money? Wouldn't you rather get 70% of what you are getting from them now then send them over to Pokerstars.

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Wow.

[TheNoodleMan]

Phill,
Quit being a an ass. The basic fact of rakeback is that it is available to people who know about it.

The average rackack enlightenment goes something like this:

Noob signs up and has no idea that rakeback exists.

Noob discovers rakeback and finds out that they can't get it on an existing account.

Noob (who shall henceforth be known as Player) starts a new account.

If Player can't start a new account at their first site they move their business to another site.

I can understand that sites want to get full rake out of as many players as possible but once a player discovers rakeback the jig is up and they may as well keep the player from going to another site.

[fluorescenthippo]

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Hey, seriously, how did they know he had 2 accounts?

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idk. he said IP address but im guessing it might be MAC address, or both, combined with other factors because i dont think those are enough evidence

[Mark L]

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Hey, seriously, how did they know he had 2 accounts?

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idk. he said IP address but im guessing it might be MAC address, or both, combined with other factors because i dont think those are enough evidence

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Well, it was probably cashouts. I had been doing some small cashouts hoping they wouldn't notice, but I had just recently done a $1,200 cashout right before they got me.

[Mark L]

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Phill,
Quit being a an ass. The basic fact of rakeback is that it is available to people who know about it.

The average rackack enlightenment goes something like this:

Noob signs up and has no idea that rakeback exists.

Noob discovers rakeback and finds out that they can't get it on an existing account.

Noob (who shall henceforth be known as Player) starts a new account.

If Player can't start a new account at their first site they move their business to another site.

I can understand that sites want to get full rake out of as many players as possible but once a player discovers rakeback the jig is up and they may as well keep the player from going to another site.

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Yeah I agree with this. Specifically the part about Phil being an ass.

[Gotmilk]

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What would you do if you spent thousands of dollars promoting Full Tilt as an affiliate, and they suddenly started moving all of your signups off to different affiliates so they could get rakeback?

[/ QUOTE ]

Give rakeback or wish I had taken the per sign-up plan. Part of taking a % is taking the risk when the business changes.

[/ QUOTE ]
The business didn't change as much as you think it did. We still only represent a smallish percentage of the poker community. Don't let the fact that you frequent 2+2 jade you from the rest of the world.

And, even if the business did change, doesn't mean that business ethics should change. FullTilt has an agreement with its affiliates (many of whom were around for a LONNNG time and helped build the site from the ground up). They aren't looking to sever ties with those people just because some 2+2ers demand rakeback.

It's not that they don't want your business; they do. They realize that some people won't play without rakeback and they realize that they're losing money (they're in a lose-lose situation until some agreements are made between FT and the huge "fish-bringing" affiliates). What they have to decide is a lesser of two evils. At the moment, that decision lies in denying rakeback to players with existing accounts.

I'm sure they're involved in some serious negotiations with old affiliates who have inactive, rakeback wanting players. Let them work it out and expect something to come of it.

Also, the per-signup plan sucks balls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop being greedy and give the people you are taking advantage of by not offering them rakeback when they get rakeback anywhere else rakeback. If the business hasn't changed so much, why do you screw the few people who care and are actually making you the most money? Wouldn't you rather get 70% of what you are getting from them now then send them over to Pokerstars.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, it's not me. I DO give my players rakeback.

I'm just saying that I understand the situation that non-rb affiliates are in because I was one on party for 4 years. There's a ton of marketing, hard work, and effort involved when you set up a business like that. If YOU put all that work into it for years and someone came along and stole your customers by breaching and/or asking a site to breach your agreement, you'd be pretty pissed.

FullTilt also understands the situation and they're doing what they can to work things out in a way that's fair for everyone.

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Was obviously referring to the hypothetical affiliate you suggested in original response, not you personally. I apologize if I offended you personally by suggesting that.

I do, however, stand by my original point. What gives non rakeback affiliates the right to the gravy train without providing their customers the same benefits that any other affiliate offers. They should either change with the times and become a rakeback affiliate, or suffer the consequences for not offering the same level of services as other providers. The player never entered into a contract with the affiliate, and should not be bound to him when he later becomes enlightened that he was duped by the affiliate into giving all the revenue he generates for the affiliate to the affiliate and not getting a piece of action for himself.