Dealer sticking it to the player? - Page 4

RR · #31 06-02-2006, 08:46 PM

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Btw, as a dealer, you NEVER take your eyes off the deck while shuffling. That I had instilled in me back in my pit dealing days. That is probably why he didn't do it while shuffling.

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This is probably true in the pit (I know nothing about pit procedures). In poker during the shuffle is the time to call for antes and blinds. In general a poker dealer should not be looking away from their game at any time.

youtalkfunny · #32 06-03-2006, 02:51 AM

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As a dealer I don't worry about revenge against players, but if I was going to seek "revenge" I really think I could come up with something better than flipping over mucked cards.

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RR · #33 06-03-2006, 03:11 AM

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I really don't know how you can conclude that this was intentional. These things happen.

As a dealer I don't worry about revenge against players, but if I was going to seek "revenge" I really think I could come up with something better than flipping over mucked cards.

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I saw a dealer get a bunch of crap from the one seat in a touranment. A little while later the one seat had most of his stack in the center, the dealer pulled the cards out of the one seat's hand and mucked them while everyone was looking at the 7 seat to act.

#34 06-03-2006, 08:50 AM

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I really don't know how you can conclude that this was intentional. These things happen.

As a dealer I don't worry about revenge against players, but if I was going to seek "revenge" I really think I could come up with something better than flipping over mucked cards.

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I saw a dealer get a bunch of crap from the one seat in a touranment. A little while later the one seat had most of his stack in the center, the dealer pulled the cards out of the one seat's hand and mucked them while everyone was looking at the 7 seat to act.

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That dealer should have been fired, without a doubt. Maybe the player should have been barred, too (depending).

RR · #35 06-03-2006, 11:35 AM

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I really don't know how you can conclude that this was intentional. These things happen.

As a dealer I don't worry about revenge against players, but if I was going to seek "revenge" I really think I could come up with something better than flipping over mucked cards.

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I saw a dealer get a bunch of crap from the one seat in a touranment. A little while later the one seat had most of his stack in the center, the dealer pulled the cards out of the one seat's hand and mucked them while everyone was looking at the 7 seat to act.

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That dealer should have been fired, without a doubt. Maybe the player should have been barred, too (depending).

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That is the point though. The dealer will never get any real greif over this. Floor gets called, dealer explains the cards were lying there so he swept them in. The key is the dealer picked a time when eveyone was looking the opposite direction. I have seen players lose their cards after giving the dleaer a harrd time on mnay occasions.

#36 06-03-2006, 02:51 PM

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I really don't know how you can conclude that this was intentional. These things happen.

As a dealer I don't worry about revenge against players, but if I was going to seek "revenge" I really think I could come up with something better than flipping over mucked cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw a dealer get a bunch of crap from the one seat in a touranment. A little while later the one seat had most of his stack in the center, the dealer pulled the cards out of the one seat's hand and mucked them while everyone was looking at the 7 seat to act.

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That dealer should have been fired, without a doubt. Maybe the player should have been barred, too (depending).

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That is the point though. The dealer will never get any real greif over this. Floor gets called, dealer explains the cards were lying there so he swept them in. The key is the dealer picked a time when eveyone was looking the opposite direction. I have seen players lose their cards after giving the dleaer a harrd time on mnay occasions.

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I can believe that. However, pulling the cards out of a player's hand??? What if it was caught on tape, too, by some random occurrence? Or what if someone just happened to turn around and glimpse it at the last split second?

That dealer deserves a firing and an ass-whipping, IMO. He'll probably get neither but he surely deserves both.

Also, I think dealers should be trained and disciplined much more rigorously (on average) by their employers, and should be told they MUST do things the right way if they want to keep their jobs. Heck, that goes for a lot of other jobs in the country too, but jobs involving the handling of other people's money take on an added responsibility in some ways.

Delivering crappy service (as a rule rather than as the unavoidable occasional exception) should equal "being fired", I don't care what the job is. I'm only in my mid-40's but I've seen the average quality of service decline a lot over the years, in a whole range of fields. And doubtless, service expectations were even higher in decades before that.

It used to be if you lost your job you might actually go hungry. Now a lot of people don't care about doing quality work because they won't go hungry no matter what. Not a good thing IMO.

What percentage of dealers in your cardroom actually take pride in their work and really try to do their best as a rule (or at least close to it)? How about waitstaff? How about the guy ringing the register at the corner store? How about someone painting your house? Taking pride in one's work is a dying quality, it almost seems.

I think shoddy dealers and lousy (fill in the blanks) should either shape up or be shipped out of their jobs. Maybe if there were no umemployment compensation and no food stamps, a lot more people would really make an effort at their jobs and take pride in being good at their specialties.

Sorry for the semi-tangential rant. And a big "Double-Thank-You!" to all the good dealers and all the other service personnel out there who actually do try and take pride in their work.

Rottersod · #37 06-03-2006, 03:21 PM

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The dealer didn't need to stop everything and gaze around the room in order to respond to the question. How hard would it have been to glance around the room while washing the cards, and to respond to the player while gathering the cards up or riffling? That would have been the natural and efficient way to have done it.

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Again, this is all perception. It probably wasn't a 10 second pause like the OP thought it was, but it could have been. It could also have taken about 1-2 seconds to quickly look around the room. Again, perception. Why do people think stop lights take 5 minutes when in reality it may take 30 seconds for a full red? Same thing.

Btw, as a dealer, you NEVER take your eyes off the deck while shuffling. That I had instilled in me back in my pit dealing days. That is probably why he didn't do it while shuffling.

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It probably WAS 10 seconds. I've seen this so many times and for a tourney with 300 people remaining it would have taken about 10 seconds for the dealer to stop what he was doing and scan the room. The problem is that this happened during a tournament where the blinds are raised on a set schedule so anything that slows the game is a detriment, especially to players with lower chip stacks (unless they are just trying to stay alive long enough to make the money). 10 seconds here and there do add up, especially when you have dealers who are slow to begin with. When you are only getting in 15- 20 hands per hour in a tournament I can easily see why some people would be upset with a dealer taking time to do something that is not part of his job.

RR · #38 06-03-2006, 08:08 PM

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I can believe that. However, pulling the cards out of a player's hand??? What if it was caught on tape, too, by some random occurrence? Or what if someone just happened to turn around and glimpse it at the last split second?

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The dealer was brave. Also when someone deals where they have constant abuse, they are not the concerned about losing their job. Things are a lot better now, but there were places just a few years ago that would allow the players to abuse the dealers for sport. I remember an incident that took place in the summer of 2001 where I called for the floor 3 times in one down becasue each time a player was getting more out of control. The fourth time the players called for the floor because I was bleeding on the table where the player had just cut my face. If the floor had chosen to deal withi the palyer the first three times I told him he was out of line this never would have occurred. He had two cards, the first one he threw I knocked away with my hand and the second one I was able to block and it cut me in the face. Had that one missed he would have gotten another chance the next hand to throw cards at me (and remember he was throwing them in such a way that they would cut when they hit); would I have been out of line to take hsi cards form him and muck them before he could use them as a weapon?

Photoc · #39 06-03-2006, 08:54 PM

Randy you have said 2 contradicting things here:
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A little while later the one seat had most of his stack in the center, the dealer pulled the cards out of the one seat's hand and mucked them while everyone was looking at the 7 seat to act.

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...and...

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That is the point though. The dealer will never get any real greif over this. Floor gets called, dealer explains the cards were lying there so he swept them in.

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Where they laying on the table that they were "swept in" or did the dealer physically "grab them out of the player's hands"? Did the player not say the dealer physically wrestled the cards away or were they in fact swept in is my question.

Big difference here.

RR · #40 06-03-2006, 09:47 PM

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Randy you have said 2 contradicting things here:
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A little while later the one seat had most of his stack in the center, the dealer pulled the cards out of the one seat's hand and mucked them while everyone was looking at the 7 seat to act.

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...and...

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That is the point though. The dealer will never get any real greif over this. Floor gets called, dealer explains the cards were lying there so he swept them in.

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Where they laying on the table that they were "swept in" or did the dealer physically "grab them out of the player's hands"? Did the player not say the dealer physically wrestled the cards away or were they in fact swept in is my question.

Big difference here.

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This is not conflicting. The dealer yanked them out of the player's hand; the player threw a fit, the dealer tells the floor they were laying there so he took them. This thread was about a dealer getting revenge on a player, if they are going for revenge they can take the cards and then let the player sound like a lunatic when he protests that the dealer took them out of his hand.