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#32
03-15-2007, 05:14 PM
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Re: (39) KQ, good spot to \'action limp\'?
[ QUOTE ]
This is the bubble of a 6max STT - two spots pay. PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t200 (3 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com Hero (t1870) SB (t6510) BB (t620) Preflop: Hero is in Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Hero calls t200, <font color="red">SB raises to t6510 (All-in)</font>, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>, <font color="gray">Hero folds</font> [/ QUOTE ] BTW, read the thread. For any of you haters, here is the rationale: Hero pays his insurance premium of 200 which equals ~12% of his stack to, in effect, take away 33% of his competitor's stack. With a 65/35 payout structure this is quite unexploitable. If your read is such that SB will push a lot then you should call with an even WIDER range. you should pay no more for this benefit than need be which is why the call is best. 
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#34
03-15-2007, 06:39 PM
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Re: (39) KQ, good spot to \'action limp\'?
[ QUOTE ]
Hero pays his insurance premium of 200 which equals ~12% of his stack to, in effect, take away 33% of his competitor's stack. With a 65/35 payout structure this is quite unexploitable. If your read is such that SB will push a lot then you should call with an even WIDER range. you should pay no more for this benefit than need be which is why the call is best. [/ QUOTE ] Well said. This is the best explanation as to why folding preflop is a mistake. What do you think hero should do if he thinks there is a good chance SB will push all-in, but he also thinks there is a good chance SB will fold or complete. Do you think he should min-raise or do you prefer the limp?
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#36
03-15-2007, 06:53 PM
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Re: (39) KQ, good spot to \'action limp\'?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Hero pays his insurance premium of 200 which equals ~12% of his stack to, in effect, take away 33% of his competitor's stack. With a 65/35 payout structure this is quite unexploitable. If your read is such that SB will push a lot then you should call with an even WIDER range. you should pay no more for this benefit than need be which is why the call is best. [/ QUOTE ] Well said. This is the best explanation as to why folding preflop is a mistake. What do you think hero should do if he thinks there is a good chance SB will push all-in, but he also thinks there is a good chance SB will fold or complete. Do you think he should min-raise or do you prefer the limp? [/ QUOTE ] No, like I said, if the read is that the SB is more passive, then you are still accomplishing the same thing by calling...the object here is not to "win" the hand but merely to sideline the BB in any way possible. So lets say for instance, same hand, you limp, SB completes and BB pushes...you call hoping SB will check it down. Min-raising doubles your price but it in no way doubles your equity at this given moment. If SB folds, the preflop call on your part is still good...any hand that BB would play with 400 behind won't be deterred one iota by a minraise over a limp. if he has JT and would push PF over your limp when SB folds he is still calling or pushing your minraise...the minraise accomplishes nothing here.
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#37
03-16-2007, 05:27 AM
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Re: (39) KQ, good spot to \'action limp\'?
This makes a lot of sense all of a sudden. I was just thinking of my own chips and how to increase them, not that I will also "win" by having shorty lose his [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#38
03-16-2007, 01:15 PM
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Re: (39) KQ, good spot to \'action limp\'?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hero pays his insurance premium of 200 which equals ~12% of his stack to, in effect, take away 33% of his competitor's stack. With a 65/35 payout structure this is quite unexploitable. If your read is such that SB will push a lot then you should call with an even WIDER range. you should pay no more for this benefit than need be which is why the call is best. [/ QUOTE ] Well said. This is the best explanation as to why folding preflop is a mistake. What do you think hero should do if he thinks there is a good chance SB will push all-in, but he also thinks there is a good chance SB will fold or complete. Do you think he should min-raise or do you prefer the limp? [/ QUOTE ] No, like I said, if the read is that the SB is more passive, then you are still accomplishing the same thing by calling...the object here is not to "win" the hand but merely to sideline the BB in any way possible. So lets say for instance, same hand, you limp, SB completes and BB pushes...you call hoping SB will check it down. Min-raising doubles your price but it in no way doubles your equity at this given moment. If SB folds, the preflop call on your part is still good...any hand that BB would play with 400 behind won't be deterred one iota by a minraise over a limp. if he has JT and would push PF over your limp when SB folds he is still calling or pushing your minraise...the minraise accomplishes nothing here. [/ QUOTE ] I follow you, but if you believe that the SB will fold, then wouldn't it be a mistake to let the BB see a free flop. Say you limp with your KQ, SB folds, and BB has something like 9-2 and just checks. Flop comes 9 7 5 and BB pushes....or any kind of flop really. Any flop where BB hits and you miss. At least a min-raise makes him commit his stack pf(or fold 1/3rd of his stack if he chooses) when you likely have the best hand. No???
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#39
03-16-2007, 04:36 PM
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Re: (39) KQ, good spot to \'action limp\'?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hero pays his insurance premium of 200 which equals ~12% of his stack to, in effect, take away 33% of his competitor's stack. With a 65/35 payout structure this is quite unexploitable. If your read is such that SB will push a lot then you should call with an even WIDER range. you should pay no more for this benefit than need be which is why the call is best. [/ QUOTE ] Well said. This is the best explanation as to why folding preflop is a mistake. What do you think hero should do if he thinks there is a good chance SB will push all-in, but he also thinks there is a good chance SB will fold or complete. Do you think he should min-raise or do you prefer the limp? [/ QUOTE ] No, like I said, if the read is that the SB is more passive, then you are still accomplishing the same thing by calling...the object here is not to "win" the hand but merely to sideline the BB in any way possible. So lets say for instance, same hand, you limp, SB completes and BB pushes...you call hoping SB will check it down. Min-raising doubles your price but it in no way doubles your equity at this given moment. If SB folds, the preflop call on your part is still good...any hand that BB would play with 400 behind won't be deterred one iota by a minraise over a limp. if he has JT and would push PF over your limp when SB folds he is still calling or pushing your minraise...the minraise accomplishes nothing here. [/ QUOTE ] I follow you, but if you believe that the SB will fold, then wouldn't it be a mistake to let the BB see a free flop. Say you limp with your KQ, SB folds, and BB has something like 9-2 and just checks. Flop comes 9 7 5 and BB pushes....or any kind of flop really. Any flop where BB hits and you miss. At least a min-raise makes him commit his stack pf(or fold 1/3rd of his stack if he chooses) when you likely have the best hand. No??? [/ QUOTE ] How often is BB not getting in here regardless of the flop? You have a good hand. The issue is how to determine how often SB is raising here and SHOULD raise. Mitigate that % against BB folding because you min-raise. I think you see SB pushing more often than any scenario like the one you describe, so much more often that any gain you might get that 2 % of the time by the min-raise is well surpassed by the gains you get the 75% of the time SB pushes...
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