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#31
07-31-2007, 05:50 AM
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Re: What to do with Dealers that don\'t enforce rules?
skin city how old are you, seriously?
As for the topic. I let it depend on the juicyness of the game. If I think my being a nit will somehow stop the game from being good I will not pursue the issue further. It is a rule, and it could be seen as unfair to any player at any time (the person holding AA in the example), but as was correctly mentioned, you are just as likely to be the person with 99. Generally, the games described in the OP are very good so I will let it slide after commenting politely on it once. 
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#32
07-31-2007, 09:50 AM
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Re: What to do with Dealers that don\'t enforce rules?
In general this isn't a big deal. Things that might make it a big deal to me is if it's the same guy doing it over and over, and he's consistently doing it after I act, but before his buddy acts. Example, i'm in the 1, Guy A is in the 2, and guy b is somewhere behind that. I raise, guy A has something marginal and waits, guy B mucks something way out of turn face up, his buddy looks at it, then folds when maybe he would have called with 2 suited cards, but his buddy folded that same suit as well.
If they are both doing it though, then i'm unfavorably impacted by half, but then favorably impacted by the other half. So in a nutshell, if they are both folding out of turn face up, it's ok, if only one is doing it, and the one benefitting is doing so AFTER i act, then I would complain. Also if it's in response to raises, etc and obviously looks like collusion i'd say something as mentioned in my example above.
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#33
07-31-2007, 09:59 AM
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Re: What to do with Dealers that don\'t enforce rules?
[ QUOTE ]
Next time, go through the dealer. In a lot of California rooms, rules are more of a vague guideline to be pointed at and grunted about from time to time, so you need to be flexible. When I'm in the box I try to prevent this, but there's not really anything that can be done, and I can't imagine the floor would kick someone out for this unless s/he became overly belligerent. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I hate playing against Californians, because they always seem to be like Jamie Gold types, flashing their aces, folding cards face up, telling what their hand is in a middle of a hand, and acting like they are God's gift to poker. I can't say for sure that all poker players from California are like that, but most I've encountered are. To the OP, if these two want to play like that, tell them to get a private table, then they can play anyway they want to.
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#34
07-31-2007, 10:55 AM
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Re: What to do with Dealers that don\'t enforce rules?
[ QUOTE ]
So in a nutshell, if they are both folding out of turn face up, it's ok, if only one is doing it, and the one benefiting is doing so AFTER i act, then I would complain. Also if it's in response to raises, etc and obviously looks like collusion i'd say something as mentioned in my example above. [/ QUOTE ] Good example. And I completely agree. And if there isn't any angling going on, and everyone has access to the same information at the same time, I think I would let it continue. What I love about this game is that it is so situational. So two friends start showing everyone their hands, I'm going to count on my ability to adapt to the situation better than others, as long as it remains a "fair" situation (very good example and point made by vhawk01) finally, skin city, if you disagree, make an argument for your case the way djoyce003 did. Your aggressive flaming of someone who is simply offering constructive criticism is curious. I know guys who like to taunt at the table for what appears to be a bunch of BS, but that's because they are trying to create an image or just put someone on tilt. (i don't approve of these methods, BTW, but I do understand the logic behind them) But why flame here?
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#35
07-31-2007, 11:55 AM
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Re: What to do with Dealers that don\'t enforce rules?
[ QUOTE ]
skin city how old are you, seriously? [/ QUOTE ] Lets drop the skin-arguments, he is taking some time off aparently so I think we can move on now.
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#36
07-31-2007, 01:11 PM
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Re: What to do with Dealers that don\'t enforce rules?
What has been a bit overlooked is that they weren't consistently mucking face up. It was usually done after a flop, and only at certain times. Again, given that they know each other, I assumed that they were selectively decided when and when not to muck face-up, and would imagine they were doing so when they thought it would provide good information to the other. Not a level playing field.
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#37
07-31-2007, 03:00 PM
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Re: What to do with Dealers that don\'t enforce rules?
[ QUOTE ]
What has been a bit overlooked is that they weren't consistently mucking face up. It was usually done after a flop, and only at certain times. Again, given that they know each other, I assumed that they were selectively decided when and when not to muck face-up, and would imagine they were doing so when they thought it would provide good information to the other. Not a level playing field. [/ QUOTE ] See, this changes things, and is sort of what I was trying to get at with my arguments with skin city. If they are doing it constantly OR randomly, then it won't have any impact on fairness, although it might have an impact on perceived fairness, because the donks are going to remember the times it screws them more than the times it helps them. But it is definitely possible to do this in a way that actually IS unfair. This is why I said originally that I don't agree with what POF said, and I WOULD make an issue about this, assuming he was doing it in some targeted way that benefits his buddy. I hate nitting it up, I almost never enforce rules that I feel have no bearing on the game (like string betting and so on) although I don't complain when the dealer enforces them. I love a friendly game. But if a guy is obviously angling, I would nicely ask the dealer JUST ONCE and then immediately go over their head. The absolute last thing I'm interested in is having a big debate at the table, in front of everyone, slowing the game down, with the dealer.
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#38
07-31-2007, 04:21 PM
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Re: What to do with Dealers that don\'t enforce rules?
[ QUOTE ]
What has been a bit overlooked is that they weren't consistently mucking face up. It was usually done after a flop, and only at certain times. Again, given that they know each other, I assumed that they were selectively decided when and when not to muck face-up, and would imagine they were doing so when they thought it would provide good information to the other. Not a level playing field. [/ QUOTE ] given the information above, if I was in the hand, and thought that he improperly gave information to his buddy that his buddy used to make a decision, I would most certainly say something. If i wasn't in the hand, i'd keep my mouth shut.
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#39
07-31-2007, 04:34 PM
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Re: What to do with Dealers that don\'t enforce rules?
given the information above, if I was in the hand, and thought that he improperly gave information to his buddy that his buddy used to make a decision, I would most certainly say something. If i wasn't in the hand, i'd keep my mouth shut.
[/ QUOTE ] That is my general rule... but would you want to wait until you were actually IN a hand where this happened to say something? The cards would already be exposed, and just by saying something, you could be giving up information unnecessarily.
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