Wtf, Miguel Cabrera?

[Triumph36]

sorry homer, i think you are trolling a bit here.

you like to see guys who play 100% all the time, but some players just don't have that in them. i don't really think baseball is filled with would-be roger dorns - because there's a limit to how little effort you can put out without being noticed. wasn't this why darryl strawberry was hated by mets fans? maybe that's another point

[Homer]

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sorry homer, i think you are trolling a bit here.

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No, I am not. I see no difference between the two situations. Just because someone has a different opinion than the majority doesn't mean it's trolling or being a devil's advocate.

As a side, I am realistic about the fact that the AS game is now and never again will be a real game. I would prefer that the players/coaches/fans simply elect an "all-MLB" team and not actually play a game (in fact, this sounds good for all major sports).

[vhawk01]

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pete rose is a [censored] moron. Plowing a catcher in the all-star game? what a [censored] idiot...

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Who cares if it was an all-star game? Baseball is baseball. He was trying to win the game. From a fan's perspective, you want to see plays like that. It's a shame that modern players are too busy worrying about messing up their careers from a freakish injury to dive for a groundball in a game like that.

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You mean, too busy worrying about winning games that matter and trying to win championships for their teams rather than impress moronic sports writers with their 'grit' and 'determination?'

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Define "games that matter". If the Nationals and Pirates meet on the last day of the season, should a player not dive for a reachable ground ball? Where do you draw the line? People are paying good money to watch these games, they deserve to see real baseball being played, not some pussy watered down version.

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I think a pretty decent line of demarcation could be "Games that count in the standings."

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Why does it matter if the Pirates finish 60-102 or 61-101? It would suck if Jason Bay hurt himself in the last game of the season. Why bother diving to make a catch? It might sound like I'm trolling, but I don't see a distinction between a meaningless game like this and the AS game.

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Are you arguing my side of this or yours? I don't personally care about those games EITHER, but lets not pretend there isn't a very obvious difference between exhibition and real games.

[Homer]

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pete rose is a [censored] moron. Plowing a catcher in the all-star game? what a [censored] idiot...

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares if it was an all-star game? Baseball is baseball. He was trying to win the game. From a fan's perspective, you want to see plays like that. It's a shame that modern players are too busy worrying about messing up their careers from a freakish injury to dive for a groundball in a game like that.

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You mean, too busy worrying about winning games that matter and trying to win championships for their teams rather than impress moronic sports writers with their 'grit' and 'determination?'

[/ QUOTE ]

Define "games that matter". If the Nationals and Pirates meet on the last day of the season, should a player not dive for a reachable ground ball? Where do you draw the line? People are paying good money to watch these games, they deserve to see real baseball being played, not some pussy watered down version.

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I think a pretty decent line of demarcation could be "Games that count in the standings."

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does it matter if the Pirates finish 60-102 or 61-101? It would suck if Jason Bay hurt himself in the last game of the season. Why bother diving to make a catch? It might sound like I'm trolling, but I don't see a distinction between a meaningless game like this and the AS game.

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Are you arguing my side of this or yours? I don't personally care about those games EITHER, but lets not pretend there isn't a very obvious difference between exhibition and real games.

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What is the obvious difference? Winning or losing either game doesn't matter at all. Why should a player on a last place team dive for a ground ball in the final regular season game? He risks injuring himself and not being able to play the next year.

It sounds as if I'm arguing your point because I'm saying that you should either think the player should give full effort in both games (again, my opinion, fwiw) or neither. It seems odd to me that he should bust ass in one game and not the other.

[vhawk01]

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pete rose is a [censored] moron. Plowing a catcher in the all-star game? what a [censored] idiot...

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares if it was an all-star game? Baseball is baseball. He was trying to win the game. From a fan's perspective, you want to see plays like that. It's a shame that modern players are too busy worrying about messing up their careers from a freakish injury to dive for a groundball in a game like that.

[/ QUOTE ]


You mean, too busy worrying about winning games that matter and trying to win championships for their teams rather than impress moronic sports writers with their 'grit' and 'determination?'

[/ QUOTE ]

Define "games that matter". If the Nationals and Pirates meet on the last day of the season, should a player not dive for a reachable ground ball? Where do you draw the line? People are paying good money to watch these games, they deserve to see real baseball being played, not some pussy watered down version.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a pretty decent line of demarcation could be "Games that count in the standings."

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does it matter if the Pirates finish 60-102 or 61-101? It would suck if Jason Bay hurt himself in the last game of the season. Why bother diving to make a catch? It might sound like I'm trolling, but I don't see a distinction between a meaningless game like this and the AS game.

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Are you arguing my side of this or yours? I don't personally care about those games EITHER, but lets not pretend there isn't a very obvious difference between exhibition and real games.

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What is the obvious difference? Winning or losing either game doesn't matter at all. Why should a player on a last place team dive for a ground ball in the final regular season game? He risks injuring himself and not being able to play the next year.

It sounds as if I'm arguing your point because I'm saying that you should either think the player should give full effort in both games (again, my opinion, fwiw) or neither. It seems odd to me that he should bust ass in one game and not the other.

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Because the one game counts in the standings. This is the definition of "games that matter." Spring training games don't matter, All-star Games don't, games that count in the standings matter. Some of those matter MORE, and some of them less, like your example. There aren't many hard-and-fast categories in the world, and many things are shades of gray. This is the rare exception; we have a legitimate, non-arbitrary, meaningful boundary between games that matter and games that don't.

[THAY3R]

Homer,

LOL.

The most obvious difference is that, in your example, Jason Bay is being paid by the Pirates to play, and to give it all. The Pirates own his contract and are paying him to represent their team and play his hardest in the 162 game season. This is not the case in the All Star Game.

[vhawk01]

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Homer,

LOL.

The most obvious difference is that, in your example, Jason Bay is being paid by the Pirates to play, and to give it all. The Pirates own his contract and are paying him to represent their team and play his hardest in the 162 game season. This is not the case in the All Star Game.

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Right, why stop at the ASG? Why not like the Father-Son Game at the work picnic? If Rose plays in a beerleague softball game in the offseason, you want him laying out? I mean, baseball (softball) is baseball, right? Love of the game, hurrah!

[wisehandpoker]

If Pete Rose did today what he did against Ray Fosse, his manager would tear him a new one and the GM would tell him to never do it again while employed by that team.

[sublime]

pete rose plowing over that catcher was moronic. if he did that today he would get some serious grief for the players union i think.

manny actually recieved flack for not going to last years all start game, which made me hate the boston media even more. personal;ly the all star game should be done away with and the players should all be given 4 day break.

also i think jeter diving into the stands face first was a tad silly. i mean, its honorable and everything but this risk of him being hurt seriously for that play far outweighed the value of the out (especially since it was out of play). before some donkey says "thats what makes jeter who he is" no its not. what makes jeter who he is is being a great offensive player at a defensive position.

[MuresanForMVP]

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pete rose is a [censored] moron. Plowing a catcher in the all-star game? what a [censored] idiot...

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Who cares if it was an all-star game? Baseball is baseball. He was trying to win the game. From a fan's perspective, you want to see plays like that. It's a shame that modern players are too busy worrying about messing up their careers from a freakish injury to dive for a groundball in a game like that.

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this is a completely idiotic point of view. IT WAS AN ALL-STAR GAME. Diving for a ball is not equal to pummelling a catcher at a play at the plate in the All-Star game. I'm sorry but I think you're flat out wrong, and this "you gotta give 110% one hundred percent of the time" stance you've taken, regardless of whether it's an exhibition, AS game or whatever, sounds Joe Morganesque.