Busto + I quit

[The blackjacker]

I'm sure you are playing bad. Everybody is sooo unlucky when they loose. I have just had a real nasty downswing but I was sure as hell also playing bad, even though I had SNGPT and checking my play ect.

I mean SNGPT is clearly as everyone knows very dependent on handranges. And when your j8 push on sb has been called with Q3o or T5s for the fifth time and lost it's very easy to tighten up way to much and start playing bad.

Clearly there are some real dumb people but I think you start to remember those stupid calls and forget all the other playss, and soon you think everybody is calling like morans, when they just aren't.. and then SNGPT suddently says you are playing well, when you infact play horrible.

[Little John]

i just read that OP is a 12-tabler. i've seen this a lot. a 12-tabler will move from the 27's to the 60's. at first, you will not be noticed. so early game you can stack people because they dont know your postflop range for getting all your chips in the middle is really tight. then when you hit the bubble, regulars are not jamming your bb quite as much as they should because they treat you as an "unknown" and they figure you will call too looose (even though you are actually on a tight calling range). then when you push on the bubble people are folding because the dont know you are pushing really wide. so all is good for the first month or so.

then you become a regular, and a lot of people know your ranges. and poker at the 60's becomes a bitch... and also, sicne you are 12-tabling, all of the 4-8 table regulars will know your range better than you know there ranges.

[ger664]

Sober

You've made the correct descision here. Read Sammy's post its awesome, so its good to have a mate like him around in these times.

[kleath]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can deal with a 20 BI downswing.

I came down 20 at the 27s, then 20 at the 16s, and over the last week have come down over 70 buyins at the 6.50s.

This is not a tilt issue. I have reviewed my play extensively with sngwiz. Sammykid insists that my level of play is beating the 60s. I guess I believe him, but it just doesn't matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have a very hard time with this. you have dumped 90 buy-ins at the 27's - 6.5's and you/sammy think your play is good enough to beat the 60's? i'm too lazy, but i suggest you run this using the roi simulator to see if this is even possible.


[/ QUOTE ]

Theres no way it would actually work but I would bet a large amount that if you put players who are breakeven in the 60s down in the 6s for a 15k sample or w/e you wouldnt see a 70 buyin downswing, its counterproductive to say "my games fine yo I just run bad" when its MUCH more likely there are biased accounts here, I mean you can almost fold into the money in the 6s. I think people are kind of relating it to their own stakes, 6s are a different ballgame. Maybe Im wrong and you really are the unluckiest guy of all time, but when every suggestion meets with "no my ranges are fine" "no im not tilting" "no thats not the problem" its MUCH MUCH MUUUUUCH more likely that you're not playing nearly as well as youd like people believe. GL to you in w/e you end up doing though, regardless of my thoughts poker and esp sngs are a sick sick way to make a living and I feel for you either way.

[kleath]

[ QUOTE ]
i just read that OP is a 12-tabler. i've seen this a lot. a 12-tabler will move from the 27's to the 60's. at first, you will not be noticed. so early game you can stack people because they dont know your postflop range for getting all your chips in the middle is really tight. then when you hit the bubble, regulars are not jamming your bb quite as much as they should because they treat you as an "unknown" and they figure you will call too looose (even though you are actually on a tight calling range). then when you push on the bubble people are folding because the dont know you are pushing really wide. so all is good for the first month or so.

then you become a regular, and a lot of people know your ranges. and poker at the 60's becomes a bitch... and also, sicne you are 12-tabling, all of the 4-8 table regulars will know your range better than you know there ranges.

[/ QUOTE ]

He wasnt at the 60s though, and I semi disagree with your point at least in the early game argument, how much of your roi is coming from getting it in for stacks vs solid regs? The situation your describing in early game happens very rarely, its not really a factor. You have a point in end game but still ranges arent static in push/fold. All this obv from a 12 -16 tabler perspective.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you're playing your A game. In fact, I don't think, 12-tabling SNG's with a severely stressed roll for hours per day to eke out your monthly nut, that you could be playing your A-game even if anger management were not an issue for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sammy, awesome post. I don't think OP would be able to hear and listen to the quoted bit from us that don't know his game, but hopefully he will listen to you.

When bad runs, tilt issues (wide variety of different tilt issues possible), and stress come together they can create a sort of "perfect storm" of poker hell. When you're the one in the eye of that storm, it's almost impossible to see anything except how unlucky you are, or how rigged the online sites must be.

I just spent the better part of a year believing the only one who runs worse than me is pinapple. (And I only play for "fun," lol.) I finally realized that I wasn't playing my A game, my A game isn't that great even if I was playing it, I wasn't enjoying poker anymore, and the only way to fix it was to be very honest with myself about my abilities and take it from there.

[AMT]

sober,

if you the love the game, it might be worth a break and coming back to plug leaks (as others have touched on, dropping 70 BI at the 6.50s is more or less unheard of without some noticeable leaks IMO). Fact is, a break will be good for you now and perhaps a serious look at your approach to things and poker in general. wish I had some more profound advice, and gl in your future endeavors.

[crystalallen]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't win.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously you can or you wouldn't have come this far; but you won't as long as you think you can't.

First let me say I'm a beginner. I got most of my poker experience from playing in a free poker bar league. I've only been playing real poker (money) for a month. Half the time I have no idea what y'all are even talking about on this board. (sngp wha??) So you can take what I say from that point of view.

It may be a cliche but that's because it's true: the mind is really very powerful. That's what winning and losing streaks are all about. You win, you feel like a winner, you win more. You lose, you feel like a loser, you lose more. Sometimes it's just bad luck that starts the losing cycle. You have a run of bad luck, then before you know it you have a defeated mindset where you feel like no matter what you do, how perfectly you play, you just cannot win. Then you start playing bad.

When I was in the poker league, I was kind of a hot shot. I was a winner. When I started playing for money, I brought that same mentality to the game and I quickly quadrupled my BR. Then I took a few hits, got outplayed, outdrawn, sucked out on.. and suddenly I was a loser. I started believing I was just a tiny little fish in a big pond. I was on perm-tilt. The strangest things would set me off. Like min bets. Every time someone would constantly minimum bet I would want to scream. I think you were the one who posted about throwing things? Well I was throwing things too. I threw two water bottles - one full - and a wooden hanger. Anyone who knows me would be SHOCKED. I'm not the type of person who throws things in anger. (although I've been known to throw a small - humorous - tantrum or two after a bad beat.)

Then I stopped playing turbo SNGs. Suddenly I was a winner again. I switched to the regular SNGs and realized that the endgame of the turbos was making me nuts with the lottery aspect of it. The luck factor would make me lose a turbo, then I'd tilt, then I'd play another and play bad, then I'd promise to play better - play perfectly and get unlucky again.... tilt.. etc.. etc.. Quitting the turbos really cleared that up for me. But it was my state of mind that really made the difference.

A week ago, I went to a college football game. There were 4 seconds left and all the kicker had to do was kick a 27 yard field goal to win. The other team took a time out - to give the kicker a chance to THINK about what he was going to do. (this is what I'm told.) They came back, the kicker missed, end of game. This can only be about his state of mind. What else could it be?

So after all this my point is: get your mind right. Let's face it, you're not going to stop playing poker. Poker is fun! You just need to win again. Play some $1 SNGs, anything, just win. Then you'll get out of that defeated mindset and know you can win again.

[The Yugoslavian]

RIVER CITY RANSOM 4LYFE NEGRO!

RIP

Yugoslav

[Sober]

Those of you saying poker is fun are insane. I never thought it was fun, that's not why I did it. I did it because I'm good at it and can potentially make a lot of money.

Sammy and I reevaluated my actual downswing, and my numbers were a little off. I still swung down 20 at the 27s and 20 at the 16s, but I only came down another 20 or so at the 6.50s. The crushing run at the 6.50s was compounded by the fact that it was over 600 games and I had to withdraw over half my roll in that timeframe. So pardon the inaccurate reporting.

Thanks for all the advice here. I know I'll be rereading this thread for weeks to come.