50 NL: AKs making top pair calling down

[Nogatsira]

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Find out where you're at on the flop and lose the minimum.

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The goal is not to "lose the minimum" it's to get max EV.

4 bet preflop, AK has his range killed. Fold river

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Offcorse we all want to get max EV but if we're way behind I like to lose the minimum. Losing the minimum in a WB hand is +ev for me.

[Genz]

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$18 more compared to $14 on turn and $44.65 on river.
That aint $2 more then calling to the river?

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OP invested $7.5 on the flop and $16 on the turn to see the river and be confronted with a push that he shouldn't have called. So if he had folded, he would have lost $23.5.
I assumed you'd raise to $25 on the flop to see where you are at. So if villain doesn't fold but calls or reraises which you would rate as being beat, if I understand you correctly, you would have invested about the same amount without seeing all 5 cards. And since AQ might consider a call on the flop to reevaluate on the turn, you don't even really know if you are clearly beat when villain calls. I don't think this info is worth the additional money if I can a reach a very high level of confidence of being beat by calling, seeing all 5 cards and being faced with an undoubtable move for the same amount.

[Nogatsira]

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$18 more compared to $14 on turn and $44.65 on river.
That aint $2 more then calling to the river?

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OP invested $7.5 on the flop and $16 on the turn to see the river and be confronted with a push that he shouldn't have called. So if he had folded, he would have lost $23.5.
I assumed you'd raise to $25 on the flop to see where you are at. So if villain doesn't fold but calls or reraises which you would rate as being beat, if I understand you correctly, you would have invested about the same amount without seeing all 5 cards. And since AQ might consider a call on the flop to reevaluate on the turn, you don't even really know if you are clearly beat when villain calls. I don't think this info is worth the additional money if I can a reach a very high level of confidence of being beat by calling, seeing all 5 cards and being faced with an undoubtable move for the same amount.

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Oh I misunderstood you, I thought you agreed with calling down.

Edit: I looked it up and you did indeed agree with calling down. so you will lose more then the $2 difference if you're WB..

[Genz]

I don't call the river so I don't lose the $49 on the river, because I'm confident that I don't fold the best hand. I actually don't see your problem. I don't really want to repeat my 7.5+16=23.5, 23.5<25 flop raise (which was an assumption on my part. I don't know how much you would have raised on the flop. I thought it was a good amount) mathematics. So OP loses the same amount by calling down and folding to the push as he would have if he had raised. But he has a few added benefits when he calls down like seeing all 5 cards and playing against a wider range.

It's only like 20 posts for me to Carpal Tunnel, so I don't mind repeating. But I'm wondering what points in my posts have been so unclear. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Nogatsira]

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I like the call down

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I don't call the river so I don't lose the $49 on the river

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Thats what I mean.

[tomonbass]

you need to make your mind up on the turn and go for it...

If you think your ahead you now need to protect your hand from the possible FD via a reraise which will be an all in bet...

Or fold if you think your behind...

as played I would reluctantly fold... meh isnt poker fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Genz]

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I like the call down

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I don't call the river so I don't lose the $49 on the river

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Thats what I mean.

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I actually think that throughout all my posts in this thread I made it sufficiently clear that by call down I meant
a) the general strategy of not raising the flop or turn
b) didn't mean that OP should go all the way but only "call down" until he is faced with that big bet on the river.

I may friendly advise you to revise my posts taking into account those clarifications. Until then, I give you a friendly: NIT! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I like the call down because you are keeping the pot small and there is no value in a raise because villain will need a pretty strong hand to make a call on this board. Only gutshots are possible and if he has KK, QQ he has an easy laydown.
I fold to the river push though. This looks like a value bet. I don't know which busted draw or mini-pair he could bluff here. The best thing you can hope for is a split. I only call this under very specific circumstances and even then my hands are shaking.

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[Nogatsira]

K, got it now what you meant [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
(playing and reading aint easy)

But how can you call someone who would reraise a nit? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Genz]

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But how can you call someone who would reraise a nit? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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LOL. I meant your way of insisting that I advocated a call down to the bitter end because I made an ambiguous statment not the way that you would have played the hand.

BTW: OP, since you actually called, I'd like to know the result of the hand.

[dhdell]

w/ a specific read, i say take this c/c/f line. as played you need to fold the river. w/o a read, I think you should be raising the turn for value and checking through for showdown value when the ten comes.