[.25/.50] QTs preflop

[BigBadBabar]

i think that 98s is actually drawing live more often than qts, fwiw

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

CAPPUCINO LDO

[00Snitch]

I knew what that post was going to be before I even opened the thread eskimo.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[unterfish]

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When did it become fashion to ignore the dry fact of domination in a multiway pot to raise hands like KJo or QTs in middle position?

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I don't think this sort of stuff is "the norm" in here, which is part of the reason I posted it.

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So, simple question of a simple mind. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Why did you do it?

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this is like one of these posts where 117 people limp and it's technically correct to raise 98s but not super useful [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Simple question of a simple mind: Why would you do it?
Why is it "technically" correct?

[00Snitch]

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this is like one of these posts where 117 people limp and it's technically correct to raise 98s but not super useful


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Yep. I do that too. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

As for why:
a) Value baby, value.
b) I lurve big pots
c) I lurve to gambol!

As well as that, there are other more strategically sound reasons like being in position, mixing up your play, getting free cards. I'm sure there are other good reasons too! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[RabidTortuga]

I'd much rather raise 98s here than QTs. 98 is much less likely to be dominated.

I do like thinking about the range we're dominated by, though. Never thought about it that way before.

[00Snitch]

How can you say that 98 is "much less" liely to be dominated?

There are more limping hands that dominated 98 than QT.

A9,A8,K9,Q9,J9,T9

Limping hands that dominate QT are:

JT,QJ. Somtimes you will find AT/KT but they are just as often raising as they are limping.

In an un-raised pot, your chances of domination are less than you think.

Why am I saying this again? Did you even read my post?

[RabidTortuga]

Sorry, you're correct based on the range we're dominated by in this particular hand. I'm still at the stage where I'm thinking about hands in categories preflop, rather than situationally based on the hand as played.

Like I said, I never thought about it that way before.

[Xhad]

So, I decided to attempt at least a half-arsed stoving...

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Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

22,435,447 games 44.914 secs 499,520 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 16.348% 15.29% 01.06% 3429673 238056.67 { QTs }
Hand 1: 19.063% 18.09% 00.97% 4059568 217395.08 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }
Hand 2: 16.145% 15.15% 00.99% 3399117 223101.75 { 99-22, A9s-A2s, KTs-K9s, Q9s+, J8s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AQo-AJo, KQo, QJo }
Hand 3: 16.147% 15.15% 01.00% 3398929 223631.17 { 99-22, A9s-A2s, KTs-K9s, Q9s+, J8s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AQo-AJo, KQo, QJo }
Hand 4: 16.142% 15.15% 00.99% 3398599 222838.50 { 99-22, A9s-A2s, KTs-K9s, Q9s+, J8s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AQo-AJo, KQo, QJo }
Hand 5: 16.155% 15.16% 00.99% 3401442 223095.83 { 99-22, A9s-A2s, KTs-K9s, Q9s+, J8s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AQo-AJo, KQo, QJo }

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(breakeven equity is about 16.667%)

Now I did kind of go out of my way to include as many hands that dominated me as possible, but still. Even if I lightened up the ranges a little more against myself it would be unlikely that I have any substantial edge here. As for the first pfr, it was a misclick. I do it all day in CO/BTN but MP2 has enough potential limpers behind that calling is better. Although after getting all those callers and seeing the potential stackoff by SB I wondered if it were that bad of a mistake. It looks like it's not huge but an error nonetheless.

[00Snitch]

Yep. Nothing surprising there Xhad, I figured if we have an edge, it would be tiny. I still raise though. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]