Please help.

[tolbiny]

I always appreciate the suggestions, sadly I have already done basically all of them. This is that same graph by date



I've taken a few weeks off, I've dropped down and now 10/20 is the highest I play, Victor's comment about playing to many tables was true for the past few days, but that was me tilting. The rest of the downswing has been almost entirely 2-3 tables at a time, my sessions rarely last longer than an hour, maybe an hour and a half, I tried switching games (not included in this downswing is also 40,000 hands of NL in which i lost ~15 buyins). I've been through a 600+ BB downswing before, and I've gone through all these normal, try to deal with it steps, and I just keep losing. An hour ago I finished a 65 min session where I dropped another 40 bets, I think back, and go over some hands and i realize that i missed a bet in three or four hands, and three bet semi bluffed a guy i shouldn't have. I'm certainly not playing my best poker, but it doesn't look terrible to me, it doesn't look like losing play overall. And its very hard todeal with.

BTW: thanks to everyone trying/offering their help, i really appreciate it, and really need it.

[The Funky Llama]

"limit hold'em is a sham" - Victor

QFT

[SteveL91]

All you can really do is keep going over your game, drop down in limits and just plod through.

Last year at this time, I was playing 3/6 6m and was in the middle of a hellish run that made me want to quit poker. Just as I was about to, I somehow managed to get an opportunity to do some propping. I shifted my roll over to the prop site and started playing.

To make a long story short, by about November, I was playing 30/60 and 50/100. In hindsight, it wasn't the best idea. While I wasn't terribly under-rolled for 30/60 and could afford to take shots at 50/100 when the game looked good, I probably would have been better off moving up a slower pace. Regardless, I was at 30/60 and doing well. Then, one day, I managed to drop about $12k between 30/60 and 50/100. Surprisingly, I was fine with it, and started to figure out how to get back on track.

And this is where things REALLY started to suck. After that day, I stopped winning. Period. I kept moving down in stakes, but it didn't stop the bleeding; it just (thankfully) prevented me from hemorrhaging money. I very rarely tilt, and prior to this, I never really had a problem with it. But, as it became more drawn out, I was picking up a variety of issues that were basically systematic tilt: pushing too hard in stupid spots trying to get it back faster; stupid calldowns because they just couldn't have gotten there again; missing obvious value, etc. It wasn't so much flat-out monkey tilt (except for the occasional hand) as it was a combination of subtle things that I couldn't immediately see. At its deepest, I had dropped somewhere between 900-1000BBs and was back to 5/10. As of today, I'm "only" down about 300BBs and playing mostly 5/10 and 10/20 with some 20/40 mixed in. I still have a ways to go, especially in terms of recovering from the disaster that was December, but I'm getting there (<3 100% rakeback). If nothing else, it doesn't feel quite as hopeless as it did a couple months ago.

I'm still dealing with a variety of "tilt," but it's manifesting itself differently: not wanting to play; cutting good sessions short so I don't give it back like the 50 other times it happened; only getting in ~8000 hands in April just to book a winning month from actual play (for the first time since November). But, I'm getting there. And you will too.

And FWIW (whatever ego I have is forcing me to post this last part), over the ~360,000 hands prior to 2007, I was a 1.4-1.5BB/100 winner at stakes ranging from .25/.50 to 50/100, so I think I can safely say that I'm at least a winning player.

[kiddo]

Dropping down when u hit a downswing is much harder today then it was 1-2y ago since there are so many grinders at all limits nowdays. Oftem the 10/20 and 15/30 can be better then 5/10 and 3/6 because the 8-tabling students dont have the bankroll to sit there.

Also, lower limit normally means less LAGs butr not less folding and when u drop down u dont respect the others/get bored and play more LAG. Which can be a disaster.

Letting some1 look at ur hands is good but in my experience, the biggest part of the difference between a breakeven player and a +2BB/100 player is the ability to play each player individually. I have coached a lot of players and 95% of them play exactly the same in a given situation against a bunch of unknowns. The problem is to play each player individually. And this is really hard for a coach to see.

Since u win against the bad ones u got to be losing against the good ones.

[spino1i]

Ya im having a hard time progressing beyond 10/20 6-max too. I know that my game is still developing though, and while I could move up stakes and I *might* have an edge, I'd rather have a large edge at 10/20 and just move up when comfortable.

As to the person who said 3/6 and 5/10 arent much easier.. I beg to differ. 3/6 and 5/10 seem so easy to me its a joke and seems like a waste of time of me playing. 10/20 is much harder and forces me to really focus if I want to win.

[MyJunkIsYou]

[ QUOTE ]
All you can really do is keep going over your game, drop down in limits and just plod through.

Last year at this time, I was playing 3/6 6m and was in the middle of a hellish run that made me want to quit poker. Just as I was about to, I somehow managed to get an opportunity to do some propping. I shifted my roll over to the prop site and started playing.

To make a long story short, by about November, I was playing 30/60 and 50/100. In hindsight, it wasn't the best idea. While I wasn't terribly under-rolled for 30/60 and could afford to take shots at 50/100 when the game looked good, I probably would have been better off moving up a slower pace. Regardless, I was at 30/60 and doing well. Then, one day, I managed to drop about $12k between 30/60 and 50/100. Surprisingly, I was fine with it, and started to figure out how to get back on track.

And this is where things REALLY started to suck. After that day, I stopped winning. Period. I kept moving down in stakes, but it didn't stop the bleeding; it just (thankfully) prevented me from hemorrhaging money. I very rarely tilt, and prior to this, I never really had a problem with it. But, as it became more drawn out, I was picking up a variety of issues that were basically systematic tilt: pushing too hard in stupid spots trying to get it back faster; stupid calldowns because they just couldn't have gotten there again; missing obvious value, etc. It wasn't so much flat-out monkey tilt (except for the occasional hand) as it was a combination of subtle things that I couldn't immediately see. At its deepest, I had dropped somewhere between 900-1000BBs and was back to 5/10. As of today, I'm "only" down about 300BBs and playing mostly 5/10 and 10/20 with some 20/40 mixed in. I still have a ways to go, especially in terms of recovering from the disaster that was December, but I'm getting there (<3 100% rakeback). If nothing else, it doesn't feel quite as hopeless as it did a couple months ago.

I'm still dealing with a variety of "tilt," but it's manifesting itself differently: not wanting to play; cutting good sessions short so I don't give it back like the 50 other times it happened; only getting in ~8000 hands in April just to book a winning month from actual play (for the first time since November). But, I'm getting there. And you will too.

And FWIW (whatever ego I have is forcing me to post this last part), over the ~360,000 hands prior to 2007, I was a 1.4-1.5BB/100 winner at stakes ranging from .25/.50 to 50/100, so I think I can safely say that I'm at least a winning player.

[/ QUOTE ]

dude, this is freaking me out. that's like EXACTLY my situation, although between 50/100, 30/60, 20/40 etc. (and once I dropped to 20/40 i didn't have the discipline to move down and I play a lot of HU as well so it got ugly [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] )I dropped more to the tune of 25k, and instead of being at 10/20 right now, since I play for a living I need to be very strict with broll management and also just to avoid stress of bad runs, it's been a while since I played higher than 5/10. But everything else about your story is eerily the same for me. I make my living through rakeback hah, I wonder if I've seen you around on WPEX.

[SteveL91]

[ QUOTE ]
I make my living through rakeback hah, I wonder if I've seen you around on WPEX.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I've gotten in around 35,000 hands of 5/10 at WPEX, so it's definitely possible. But, I'm not quite ready to give out my name; it screws me up too much.

[MyJunkIsYou]

no problem - I'd prefer to be anonymous myself too. That's cool though. I anticipate playing 5/10 regularly in a few months so maybe I'll see more of you if you're still there [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Catt]

I don't play often enough or seriously enough anymore to offer a lot of help, but I wish I could since I have learned from and been helped by your past postings. I'd repeat Llama's famous quote from your roomate, and also say that I think Kiddo's post is worthy of several readings and several extended thought sessions away from the tables.

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play often enough or seriously enough anymore to offer a lot of help, but I wish I could since I have learned from and been helped by your past postings. I'd repeat Llama's famous quote from your roomate, and also say that I think Kiddo's post is worthy of several readings and several extended thought sessions away from the tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

Catt,
at this point every little bit helps, even the small confidence boost of having someone say "your play looks alright to me". I am losing 2 out of every 3 days I play and have lost an additional 150 bets since posting this, so today was my last day playing 10-20, now 5-10 is the highest limit i will be playing. I want to scream every time I play (and I do), even the few winning session I have are riddled with beats and usually only end up 20-30 bets. It is extremely frustrating.

[censored] YOU STARS [censored] YOU MOTHER [censored] [censored] MOTHER [censored] SHITTERS!!!! I [censored] HATE YOU GRUNDLE LICKING BITCH ASS DOUCHBAGS AND I HOPE YOU GET GONORRHEA IN THE BACK OF YOUR THROUGH FROM [censored] TRANSVESTITE TIAWANEASE HOOKERS! DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE!
end rant