Blind defense checkup

[Sailboats]

I would bet the river, if you're going to play this aggressively might as well continue. Even if youre beat you will get info.

Plus for later hands he will think twice about stealing your blinds.

[drbk2]

I would check intending to fold against most players that fit the description unless we had some kinda history before. This really looks like he has QJ or something and he may even check behind with something like that on the river.

You can beat JT here but I don't know, usually an aggressive blind stealer would remain aggressive with a hand like this on the flop, making it unlikely in my mind that he would have this hand.

[Vehn]

oh cmon he almost never calls with a worse hand unless he puts you squarely on JT so why bet the river? this is basic stuff.

[drbk2]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet the river, if you're going to play this aggressively might as well continue. Even if youre beat you will get info.

Plus for later hands he will think twice about stealing your blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? From the blind stealer's perspective, why would I NOT want to steal someone's blind when he is giving me a lot of action with bottom pair?

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
tough hand, on all streets.

I like the flop c/r but it's close because the KQ6 board hits so many hands he can have. The problem is that is true regardless of your line. A flop c/r might fold 77-JJ, AX with no gutshot, Jx/Tx/9x hands, and that is a victory for you against 6 live outs or a better hand.

The problem here is the two broadway cards just make so many hands/draws relative to your opponents range, but you also made a vulnerable pair that needs protecting. I think the turn follow-up is also good, but a turn c/c is ok as well because you are now risking more relative to the pot to find out if you are behind AND you have to fold to a raise when you are likely folding a 5 outer or even the best hand. The river would be player dependant...many players will bet 100% of the hnads they have here on the river when checked too, then the c/c is definitely best. others are more passive and capable of calling down with ace high, against them, bet/call.

overall a tough hand, but well played/good thought process. It becomes a ton easier to play on a board like say Q76 or Q63, just gives you much more clear idea of what you are against.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks stox -- great response. I considered the checkraise/check-call line from your book, but when the turn brought a nice low brick, I quickly decided that I would be in too tough a spot on the river if I check-called and in order to prevent giving the free card I just went ahead and bet out to try and fold out his 6-outers or even a hand like 99.

I find it interesting that you bet/call against some players on that river, meaning you think the 6 is good often enough against a river raise. I'll definitely start seeing more showdowns with marginal hands if that's the case. If I had bet, I would have folded to a raise.

[stoxtrader]

OOPS!


there are only a SELECT FEW players a river check/CALL is best against. and it is not the player i described in the first post. i MEANT to say check/FOLD everything else is as i initially wrote.

bet/CALL I would do against like 3 high stakes guys i have history with.

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
Commerce 20. Villain in this hand is an aggressive blind-stealer and probably a pro. Doesn't play brilliantly but is probably a winner. Skinny, middle-aged Armenian who always seems to be looking for a table change to get the best of it. He yelled at a drunk Arab after a hand and they got into it, and he called the floorman over, reported the Arab's use of an obscenity, and got the guy kicked off the table.

Anyway.... Folded to him on the button and he predictably raises. SB folds, and I call in the BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Flop is KQ6. I checkraise, he calls.
Turn is 4. I bet, he calls.
River is 4. I check intending to call.

Standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's called twice and you have no hand. How could anything other than check/fold be an option ?

What does this guy put you on? Probably not a pair of sixes. He probably figures you have kings or queens, yet he is still calling but not playing back at you. I think he has a king or queen with a not so great kicker. So he is going to see your cards.

[Sailboats]

[ QUOTE ]
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I would bet the river, if you're going to play this aggressively might as well continue. Even if youre beat you will get info.

Plus for later hands he will think twice about stealing your blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? From the blind stealer's perspective, why would I NOT want to steal someone's blind when he is giving me a lot of action with bottom pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well for one thing, If he sees you playing very loose to LP raises, he will have to adjust (since hes a pro right?). There is no point in trying to steal a loose players blind if he defend every time or nearly every time. This mean that the 'pro' will only raise with strong hands as oppose to weak hands because you will be calling quite often and therefore make his steal attempts not very profitable.

[jfk]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys are overthinking this. The river is definitely a check. This is a live 20 player. The chance of you making any money off of him by betting is near nil. He won't call the turn with 88 and by the river he's either got an ace high gutter that he'll grumble and fold or JT.

I guess you might get him to fold a better 6 but if you bet the river all that happens is you lose a bet everytime he has QJ. You should check and probably fold against a ton of live players but call against this guy.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't find fault with this assessment. Being that its live versus an unknown, I'd check the river.

A river call is in order for the times an unknown might take a stab with AJ or AT.

[emerson]

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I would bet the river, if you're going to play this aggressively might as well continue. Even if youre beat you will get info.

Plus for later hands he will think twice about stealing your blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? From the blind stealer's perspective, why would I NOT want to steal someone's blind when he is giving me a lot of action with bottom pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.