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#21
04-23-2007, 12:26 AM
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Re: A 30r hand by Mikej with an interesting flop decesion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think an 8k bet is far more exploitable as it is more easily check-raised IMO. [/ QUOTE ] lol on like 8 levels [/ QUOTE ] English??? lol [/ QUOTE ] translation: you're post was hilariously wrong for many reasons edit: and because i feel bad for being a dick - first, he can't c/r us because he's in position second, who cares if we get all-in? assuming we don't c/call a shove, we've got equity to spare against even the tightest range thirdly, betting 13k does not allow him to make many mistakes as such a large bet will even get worse flush draws to fold (which is a gigantic disaster) [/ QUOTE ] I also don't want to be an [censored], but there are 3 players in the hand. One of them, the BB, can check-raise. Sure we have great equity against most hands that shove here, I think the optimal result here is just betting here and taking down a pot uncontested. Betting 13k rather than 8k is more likely to eliminate Ax hands, QT, QK which are slightly ahead of us here, and having them call, and the turn brick here is not good at all. 
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#22
04-23-2007, 12:31 AM
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Re: A 30r hand by Mikej with an interesting flop decesion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think an 8k bet is far more exploitable as it is more easily check-raised IMO. [/ QUOTE ] lol on like 8 levels [/ QUOTE ] English??? lol [/ QUOTE ] translation: you're post was hilariously wrong for many reasons edit: and because i feel bad for being a dick - first, he can't c/r us because he's in position second, who cares if we get all-in? assuming we don't c/call a shove, we've got equity to spare against even the tightest range thirdly, betting 13k does not allow him to make many mistakes as such a large bet will even get worse flush draws to fold (which is a gigantic disaster) [/ QUOTE ] I also don't want to be an [censored], but there are 3 players in the hand. One of them, the BB, can check-raise. Sure we have great equity against most hands that shove here, I think the optimal result here is just betting here and taking down a pot uncontested. Betting 13k rather than 8k is more likely to eliminate Ax hands, QT, QK which are slightly ahead of us here, and having them call, and the turn brick here is not good at all. [/ QUOTE ] dude BB is not the focus here AX hands are meaningless beacuse they're never getting allin on flop (and if they are, so what?), and they're never calling all-in UI on the turn. that's one of the reasons exactly WHY we bet 8k here, so that A8s or whatever calls flop with no plan for turn like donks do, and then fold when we shove turn (which we will). whether or not the turn bricks is totally meaningless. we act first, meaning, unless you're a giant pussy and dont know what to do, we are shoving any turn. and they are folding they're AX/QT/KQ that you are so worried about 99% of the time
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#24
04-23-2007, 12:58 AM
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Re: A 30r hand by Mikej with an interesting flop decesion
Im curious, what line did MikeJ actually take?
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#25
04-23-2007, 01:53 AM
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Re: A 30r hand by Mikej with an interesting flop decesion
I was thinking clear CRai also
he should stab at it sometimes... also for shania purposes good to just not have an autogiveup hand when you check here. it's not that bad if goes check/check
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#27
04-23-2007, 03:51 AM
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Re: A 30r hand by Mikej with an interesting flop decesion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Im curious, what line did MikeJ actually take? [/ QUOTE ] I went for c/r AI and it was checked through. [/ QUOTE ] This is why I don't like checking. CRAI is great if you know button will call, but I think button checks behind a lot here. I'd rather get the chips in on the flop than get them in after the turn bricks out.
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#28
04-23-2007, 05:00 AM
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Re: A 30r hand by Mikej with an interesting flop decesion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Im curious, what line did MikeJ actually take? [/ QUOTE ] I went for c/r AI and it was checked through. [/ QUOTE ] If you're either villain, what do you need to bet into this board, when ep pfr checks to you? I'm probably only betting what I'm felting but I'm calling bets with a much wider range, especially OTB. The problem is whether and how we can fold a better hand in that range on the turn when we brick and how we can stack the same hands when we don't so I'd generally want to bet as small as I think I can get away with. I can't see this being much less than 8k but my image and the table dynamic might get this down to 6k.
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#29
04-23-2007, 07:01 AM
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Re: A 30r hand by Mikej with an interesting flop decesion
All,
This pot is 3-way.. so it's possible for us to c/r and it's also possible for us to get c/red. This spot sucks. I'm not really happy with any of our options, but I think check/push is best. I'd like to here a nice argument for one play over the other.
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#30
04-23-2007, 07:13 AM
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Re: A 30r hand by Mikej with an interesting flop decesion
[ QUOTE ]
All, This pot is 3-way.. so it's possible for us to c/r and it's also possible for us to get c/red. This spot sucks. I'm not really happy with any of our options, but I think check/push is best. I'd like to here a nice argument for one play over the other. [/ QUOTE ] So would I, because i really don't know which is best. I really think if we're betting though, its about pot sized.
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