WPT on GSN now

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Here's an interview with the WPT conducted by Bluff:

WPT Moves to GSN
By: Matthew Parvis

As soon as we found out about the new deal between the WPT and GSN, we had to bring you the scoop. Bluff was able to get an inside chat with WPT Founder, President and CEO Steve Lipscomb and President and CEO of GSN Rich Cronin.

Bluff: Congratulations to you both first off, it seems like this is a great merger between two great companies. Tell us, how is this going to effect the poker community immediately?

Steve: I think the answer is, we should all, as a poker community be extremely excited that what I think will be an industry changing event is about to occur. The World Poker Tour, which launched the whole poker phenomenon, is going to be on the network that considers itself, the network for games. It will focus and promote the WPT as it always should have been promoted.

Bluff: In terms of the tournaments themselves, I know there has been some recent criticism about the tournament structures, including the final table structures, which were slightly altered to enhance the TV factor of the final product, is that going to changed at all?

Steve: We are constantly having dialogue about what the structure should look like. There are actually 2 parts to the structure question. Structure, before final tables; and if you look at WPT events, its tough to beat the structure that we have leading up to the final table. There is plenty of time; there is ton of play. The pressure of the blinds and ante’s builds slowly. The final table structure is something that I think gets a bad rap. But it’s just that I think, a bad rap. All this is in the context that there is only usually one guy per tournament that really likes the structure, and that’s the guy who wins it. You could put any ten-poker players in the room, and they could not decide one tournament structure among the group of them.

We have two things that we need to do, one is we need to have good poker, not because there is a lot of money on the line, but we want good poker in the TV shows, as it needs to be what we are now, which is the most exciting tournament final tables on television. If you have a twelve-hour block of six-handed final tables that you need to edit down to a two-hour show, it can becomes very uninteresting. For all players, and people in the poker industry, we need to keep this interesting to keep an audience involved. I don’t know how much the final table structure will be changed, because that is something, that we as the as the WPT will continue to control.

I just think that two pieces of information are undervalued. One is that our two-hour television table starts with six people. If you aggregate the amount of time that those final tables take with what it takes to go down from nine or ten players, which is where the final table really starts, our average final table is anywhere from twelve to seventeen hours. You would be hard-pressed to find a lot of poker players who would question whether you need more time than that to show your prowess as a poker player.

Bluff: What about production? When the WPT was first launched, it was a cutting edge product. Will the audience see anything that will blow us away again and change the way we look at poker as the hole-card cam did at the start?

Steve: Well first off , poker fans should check out the new season five material if you haven’t already. It aired last night (Wednesday) for the first time on the Travel Channel. The look, the feel, even the smell of the show is all new. It really takes it to a new level. The answer is, Rich and I are extremely excited to get together and bring a big audience to the show. That being said, we are keeping all of the great elements to the show. That includes Mike and Vince, it includes the best production value in poker tournaments hands down, and it includes all of those things. We will continue to show our stories better and better than we have in the past.

Rich: From a GSN perspective we have been tracking the WPT for quite a while. We have seen season-to-season improvements. It has great production value, we love the hosts, and of course we are certainly open to new innovations which can add to the fantastic product we have now.

Bluff: Poker has changed a lot since the inception of the WPT. The hard-core fans get their news instantaneously. However, we still have to wait six months to see these final tables. Will there be any change in that regard?

Steve: We are likely to keep a similar schedule, because those events, like you said are instantaneous. If we were doing live poker, that would be very different. The issue with live poker is, the magic that originally made it work, that helped mainstream audiences enjoy it, and continue to enjoy is brought through magic of TV, and what we do with the smoke and mirrors to make great shows. Once you are not live, and it is recorded it doesn’t seem to matter much to audience whether it happened a week ago, or if it happened a six months ago. That is proven based on audience response. However we are getting better at presenting two different things. One is the coverage of the live event, and making that interesting to an internet audience. But when I see the first rough cut. It is an entirely different experience, one that you can’t capture on the Internet. First, you have the hole cards, and second because you have the edited version, which captures the action and excitement. I would say you wont see much change in that. We may toy around as time goes on but with season six, but I think it will be pretty similar.

Bluff: Obviously GSN has a pretty stellar poker lineup, will there be integration here, what can we expect?

Rich: Well it definitely will be on Monday night, which we have established as a casino night with High Stakes Poker, and World Series Of Blackjack, as well as other shows. We think the WPT and High Stakes Pokeer have great synergy, and are very complimentary. It really will make GSN the poker destination, so its great for us, it’s great for the WPT, and its great for poker in general and fans. They know where they can go to get fantastic cash game, and now a great tournament as well. We think it works for everybody.

Steve: For us in poker, and you know, we love this game. Here at WPT we wake up everyday trying to find a way to grow the poker community, and this poker league in the U.S. and Globally. We are thrilled to be at a network where we have things that we can grow on. High Stakes Poker as a lead in to a WPT show is a dream for us. Instead of jumpstarting the show every time, like we seem to have to do with the Travel Channel. We’ll have a place to start from, and to lead to. When you are a show on any TV network, you always hope to have a show with a similar audience that leads into you, and that you can lead out to as well. These guys have shown already that they have committed to poker. What we announced today is one of those industry-changing events that we will look back on, and look at how it helped create the new poker world.

Rich: There is also great synergy between games shows, and poker programming, so WPT will become our number one promotional priority. We will promote it across the network as well promoting it off air. There is much more of a natural fit between the game show audience and the poker audience, than there is with travel and poker.

Bluff: That ties in to our next question. There has always been a hint of a travel element on the WPT broadcast. Now, with the WPT on GSN, will that alter the feel of the show in that sense?

Steve: Well as you have been watching the WPT over the past four seasons, interestingly enough, and the Travel Channel deserve credit here, we continued to modify those segments so they are more poker centric, and take you away from the table less. On the other hand, one of the things that I think makes the WPT the premiere poker league that it is, is that we are in partnership with Bellagio, Borgata, Commerce, Foxwoods, and the really great destination properties that offer poker. So you can bet that we will continue to use that as a strength both in, and outside of the show. I think we will always be evolving with the freedom and collaboration of GSN in order to make the show, and make you enjoy the entertainment. We want you, our audience to want to come play in the events so you can actually be the next WPT poker-made-millionaire.

Bluff: How about the availability of GSN in U.S. homes. Right now it seems to be available in a bit over half if U.S. households. We noticed some folks on the poker forums worried that they have trouble getting GSN. What would you say to fans worried about not catching the latest WPT episodes?

Rich: Well, GSN is available in about 63 million homes in the U.S. We work with every cable operator, as well as DirecTV and Dish Network, as well as the new telephone company providers like Verizon. So, its available everywhere. If people don’t have it yet, or it’s not on there expanded basic and it’s on a tier or something, they should call their cable company and let them know they want GSN on their extended basic cable. Or they could get it on DirecTV or Dish. So it’s available everywhere, there is no city in the country that can’t get GSN.

Steve: And I’ll tell you this. We have already begun discussing how we can facilitate those kinds of things. Anyone out there on the forums, or any poker player who says “I can’t seem to get GSN.” We certainly would love to have their help as foot soldiers. That makes a difference. When people call, and contact us and say, “I need that programming”, because that Monday night block is unique and really something that’s new. It was new when poker made primetime at all when the WPT began. Now you have a network that is taking an entire night, and giving that night to gaming on TV, that’s a big deal. We are already talking about how to facilitate that. The poker community will be a big assistant to us as we try and make sure people have access.

Rich: I’ll also say that we are in Canada, as well as the U.S. But the poker community is free to call us, and their cable companies to push getting the network on expanded basic, and that can really help.

Bluff: How about classic WPT footage? Everyone loves to catch up sometimes with some of our favorite WPT final tables. Will re-runs be shown on GSN? How will that be handled?

Steve: The first answer is this. The Travel channel has a four-year license for Seasons Two through Five. So for a period of time, they will continue to run those on their air. On the other hand, as early as 08’ we will have Season One back under our control. With our contract with GSN, we are limited to airing that (Season One) with GSN. I am hoping we can work that out, and maybe retro-fit those by finding some extra commentary.

Steve: I also want to mention that we will also be utilizing both of our websites to give viewers a very interactive experience as well. You will be able to visit the GSN website while watching and get a totally unique experience.

Bluff: Well this all sounds very exciting, we are sure this new partnership will please everyone in the poker community greatly. Thanks for taking the time to chat with us.

Source: http://www.bluffmagazine.com/onlinef...movestogsn.asp

[olivert]

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Also, someone who wants GSN badly enough will find a way to get GSN, even if that means having to move to another location where he/she can get DirecTV or DISH Network satellite TV (which require an unobstructed view of the southern sky), which offer GSN.


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Oliver,
Having access to ratings information does not make you an expert on the television industry. Absolutely no one would move to a different house to get High Stakes Poker. No one would do that for Grey's Anatomy or CSI, either. That doesn't mean people wouldn't watch the show if they got the channel.

That is seriously one of the stupidest things I've ever heard someone say on this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have run soccerTV.com for 12 years and I have heard the same type of complaints for 12 years in the soccer world that I am now hearing from you in the poker world.

If you go over to the soccer forums (Bigsoccer.com in particular), you will notice that I am HATED by 90% of the forum users over there (they have said to me repeatedly for the past 10 years that the ONLY positive contribution I can ever make to the soccer world is to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge) because I have been pushing, since 1998, for all-soccer digital channels, ethnic channels, video on demand, and pay-per-view instead of pushing more international soccer on the "mainstream" channels i.e. ESPN and ESPN2.

(International soccer are ultra-niche TV products in the U.S. with the exception of the Mexican First Division, which gets better ratings than the NHL week in and week out. The top matchup in the Mexican First Division, Chivas Guadalajara vs Club America, gets better ratings than a North Carolina-Duke basketball game and better ratings than every NHL game with the exception of Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final.)

International soccer fans had to adjust literally every year as contracts change hands. Some of them had to switch from digital cable to DISH Network to DirecTV in a short time span (2 to 3 years) in order to watch the product they want to watch.

Guess what? Some of them had to move to a new house in order to get the product they want, while others complain and still some others have chosen to burn me in effigy during pre-game parties (I have actually seen that happen once.)

--

Again, the TV people associated with the WSOP coverage knows what they are doing. One of them had told me that they would be OUT OF BUSINESS if they were to do the WSOP the way HSP is being done. Why? Because they know that WSOP cannot survive on ESPN with just die-hard poker TV viewers alone.

Again, you have a very skewed view of the world.

The "there are 70 million+ poker players" in the U.S. is complete nonsense, as that figure includes every person who has ever played one hand of poker with play chips.

The truth is closer to somewhere between 500,000 and 1 million, give or take.

Senator Frist understood the truth and was able to jam the UIGEA through.

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Back to WPT's switch to GSN:

We are now living in 2007, in a completely different marketplace compared to 2005.

There was no way anyone in 2005 could look at WPT's switch from Travel to GSN as a "victory" of sorts.

In the reality of the marketplace that is 2007, the WPT did the best it could by going with GSN for 2008.

Getting the GSN deal was a "victory" of sorts for WPTE given that the likely alternative available would have been a time-buy on FSN after 11pm on Sunday nights.

The deal is a good fit for WPTE, as WPTE gets cash from GSN, cash that WPTE will need to have its warchest as WPTE embarks on its crusade to secure partnerships with government-granted and government-owned monopoly gambling operations East and Southeast Asia.

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Same deal with online sponsorships for players: 2+2 favorites such as Shaniac, imsolucky0, etc. would have been valuable had they broken through in 2004.

This is 2007, and the market has changed dramatically. If you can't speak Spanish, German, Polish (and soon Italian) fluently, you will not in demand as a potential primary spokesperson by the online gaming industry.

(By 2009 or 2010, that will shift again, as Tagalog, Korean, Cantonese, and Mandarin will likely be the languages of choice for primary online gaming spokespersons.)

[Mr. Orange]

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If you go over to the soccer forums (Bigsoccer.com in particular), you will notice that I am HATED by 90% of the forum users over there

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People outside of 2+2 think your an idiot? shocking....

- part of the post that contained a no-no removed, Dids.

[Dids]

Oliver,

I'm not sure what having a horrible idea about soccer has anything to do with cable.

Your posts would be better received if they were actually about the topic at hand instead of being about yourself.

[olivert]

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Oliver,

I'm not sure what having a horrible idea about soccer has anything to do with cable.

Your posts would be better received if they were actually about the topic at hand instead of being about yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

NickMPK, Snagglepuss, etc. keep telling me that I know nothing about this business.

I have been marketing niche sports TV products on behalf of clients for the past 10 years (and have done small campaigns for ESPN and FOX Sports along the way), and I will defend myself when people fire shots at me.

I have posted what I know about the reasons why certain shows position themselves in the way they do.

These reasons are obviously NOT what most of the 2+2 crowd want to hear.

(And one of these days, I expect someone to burn me in effigy at a 2+2 poker party. I would love to be invited to that party as a witness.)

[MicroBob]

I'm actually interested in Oliver's opinions on some of this and even agree with some of it.
I'm not entirely unhappy that WPT is going to GSN. Seems like a better fit to me.
The hope is that GSN gets into more households.

I don't think Oliver's point about the soccer stuff is completely unrelated to the poker discussion. Not nearly as irrelevant as some of his other hijacks at least.

In the very least, I see his point somewhat.
but I also happen to know a little bit about soccer (not a ton, but some at least).
Fans of soccer on TV are way more passionate than almost any poker-viewer though imo.

[ QUOTE ]

Again, the TV people associated with the WSOP coverage knows what they are doing. One of them had told me that they would be OUT OF BUSINESS if they were to do the WSOP the way HSP is being done.

[/ QUOTE ]


Just because one guy at ESPN said that doesn't mean it is true.
I mean, one guy who "knew what he was doing" could have had the opinion back in the day that showing instant-replays in live-sports wouldn't work because it would be too confusing to the viewer to see the same play again.
Somebody else could think that showing the score and the clock in the corner of the screen for the ENTIRE game would be too distracting and viewers wouldn't like it (some people thought this I believe..NBC seemed really reluctant to add this feature).

So just because some guy at ESPN says, "We HAVE to do it because there really isn't any other way to keep an audience" doesn't mean his opinion is gospel.


The WSOP stuff they are doing to try to draw in more viewers is kind of old.
Lots of regular people don't want to just see cards of course.
I think people like the insult-fests and confrontations like Matusow-Sheiky.
My Dad thinks these obnoxious personalities are somewhat interesting.

But some of that Ro-Sham-Bo and other feature stuff is probably hurting their program a little bit.
I think they even might lose a different part of their audience when these things come on but that's just a hunch.

There have to be other ways for ESPN to liven up their WSOP coverage a bit more imo without going "the lets see how silly we can be" route.

[Bonified]

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Fans of soccer on TV are way more passionate than almost any poker-viewer though imo.


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QFT. I could actually picture a few hard-core fans moving house if they had to in order to keep watching their favourite team.

To suggest that anyone would do the same for poker though is ridiculous.

[JoseGonzlez]

the people who run the WPT are idiots as indicated by N8's inteview.

but hell they wont change and their ratings will probably just keep getting worse.

[woodguy]

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The World Poker Tour, which launched the whole poker phenomenon

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He can't really belive this can he?

Taking credit for the Moneymaker effect?

Wow.

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

[ QUOTE ]
Oliver,

I'm not sure what having a horrible idea about soccer has anything to do with cable.

Your posts would be better received if they were actually about the topic at hand instead of being about yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like reading his posts and the fact that he knows about the ratings and such is interesting to me, even though I can see how the tone of his posts might be annoying.