super/system flawed for uNL

[sayuncle]

Well, in my local cash games, Brunson's book has lead to one thing: people don't fold!

Heh.

[RobNottsUk]

Ah, "take it Doyle!" :lol:

So may be, you cannot blindly apply any strategy, without regard to opponents strategies?

[HuskerFan85]

The book still has alot of useful things, but I have to admit when I bought it, the puny section on holdem sort of disappointed me. I also seen he wrote it as a superaggressive/loose strategy that just screamed big variance at me. It may have been the best strategy back then, but the face of poker has changed. I think doyle had and has alot more to say about holdem poker, alot more than a few pages in a huge book. But stud was still much bigger back then than it is now compared to holdem. Maybe you're right, the pros don't really put too much of their useful knowledge in the print. Its sort of like a magician giving out the secrets of their tricks to the audience before a show. To be honest, I wouldnt do it, either.

[xlledx]

Doyles strategy actually works best in uNL. I know this because after a brutal beat Ill often sit in a .01-.02 game just to vent. The players are so bad at micro levels that Doyles-style simply runs right over them. At that level theres really only two types of players, weak-tight and weak-loose. Bluff the tight wads, and value bet the calling stations. How much easy do you want it?

As for the short stacks, I simply dont get involved in a pot if only shortstacks are in it. And if the whole table is shortstacks, then that game sucks, and just leave it.

[mvdgaag]

[ QUOTE ]
Doyles strategy actually works best in uNL. I know this because after a brutal beat Ill often sit in a .01-.02 game just to vent. The players are so bad at micro levels that Doyles-style simply runs right over them. At that level theres really only two types of players, weak-tight and weak-loose. Bluff the tight wads, and value bet the calling stations. How much easy do you want it?

As for the short stacks, I simply dont get involved in a pot if only shortstacks are in it. And if the whole table is shortstacks, then that game sucks, and just leave it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see some proof. At uNL noone folds (which is why they play so bad). That means you can't make plays that rely on folding equity and should valuebet a lot more. SS seems to scream folding equity.

[joe023948]

[ QUOTE ]
Doyle explains that when playing against weak players, just make a hand and bet it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Bang584]

Super System is not flawed at uNL. Doyle states that you shouldn't bluff if you know you're likely to get called. If he said to move in on a draw regardless of the situation, then it would be flawed.

So the "super system" for beating these loose players is to simply show them a hand when the pots get big.

[mvdgaag]

Yes, he states these things, but in his cook book like explanations he says he almost always bets if he was the preflop agressor. This works great against loose passives, but not against the average uNL player. I feel most people opposing here feel like defending Doyle, because of his iconic status. His style and ideas are and were great indeed, but it just won't work against todays opponents at uNL. It will probably win at small stakes where players understand the game, but not at micro stakes or high stakes, or doyle would be playing by his own advice, which is obviously isn't.

[Bang584]

I would say you are correct... the bulk of that NLHE strategy system would make you quite the donator if followed.

[Robin Donks]

The thing is, the higher up in stakes you play, the more the concepts of the book apply. Originally the book was written with higher stakes and experienced players in mind. Oh, and the bulk of the strategy is very sound even in microstakes like "don't bluff calling stations", "don't get broke in a limped pot without the nuts" (he talks about folding a bottom set in a limped pot to too much aggression)
Basically the book is probably not what an average microstakes noob needs but is a must for every player with some experience.

Doyle himself plays more conservatively today, but a lot of very successfull high stakes pros play that hyperaggressive supersystem style (Prahlad Friedman, Samoleus and CTS come to mind)