Convince me that that both sides aren't simply disgusting murderers

[Arnfinn Madsen]

I saw an interview with a female police chief asked what has shocked her most in her job, and she said it was seeing how in general people who had comitted pre-mediated murders did not regret. She explained it with that the process of justifying and rationalizing the murder had happened in the murderer's brain prior to the murder and thus he did not feel that he had done anything wrong.

Jews and arabs have been bombarded with propaganda attempting to justify the right to kill for centuries. The rationalization and justification is already ingrained in the societies, so that all the Palestinian youngster has to do is just to put on the bomb belt, enter that bus and push the button; the Israeli fighter pilot just has to push the trigger to bomb a village in Lebanon and kill some civilians. None of them has any reason to regret, premeditated murders are eeeeeh premeditated.

The only way to solve it is to attack the rationalizations and justifications. It is basically to combat extremist thinking on both sides. This is actually the thing I like about Olmert, his rhetoric speaks about our neighbours etc. and gradually thus he makes it harder and harder for the jewish society to justify the murder of Arabs, and thus he makes it harder for Jews now and in future to kill Arabs. The Arab side has many such preachers as well, but their message is not able to get through to the same extent, thus we will probably see a period of the Arab side being more murderous than the Jewish side.

[NapHead]

[ QUOTE ]
If a leader really wanted to help their people they would try to coexist.

[/ QUOTE ]

"We have to relinquish part of our dream to leave room for the dream of others, so that all of us can enjoy a better future." -Olmert

"Hamas would “definitely not” be prepared for coexistence with Israel should the IDF retreat to its 1967 borders." - al-Zahar

All you've really done is reinforce the point that Hamas doesnt want to help it's people. Olmert, on the other hand...

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
thus we will probably see a period of the Arab side being more murderous than the Jewish side.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what else is new?

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thus we will probably see a period of the Arab side being more murderous than the Jewish side.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what else is new?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really no point in discussing, as pointed out in the OP both sides have conducted atrocities in the past, their is no side who can claim innocence. What is constructive is to combat Arab extremism while not excusing jewish extremism by referring to the Arabs as more murderous, since both sides have to change their attitude for the killing cycle to stop.

[junglewarfare]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thus we will probably see a period of the Arab side being more murderous than the Jewish side.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what else is new?

[/ QUOTE ]

Breakdown of fatalities from 2000-2005, linked from wikipedia

Israelis killed: 1010
Palestinians killed: 3179

Israeli non-combatants killed by opposite side: 764
Palestinian non-combatants killed by opposite side: 1099

Israeli non-combatants under the age of 12 killed: 46
Palestinian non-combatants under the age of 12 killed: 88

[iron81]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm implying that that isn't the case, and those leaders accurately represent the views of a far greater portion of Moslem Arabs than their apologists assert to be the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Despite the continuing unpopularity of the U.S.-led fight against terrorism, there is growing evidence that support for terrorism is waning among Muslim publics.

Another sign that support for terrorism may be fading is that opinions of Osama bin Laden have turned more negative over the last two years in Morocco, Lebanon, and Turkey.

Since the first Pew Global Attitudes Survey in 2002, we have consistently found broad support for democracy among predominantly Muslim publics.

Source starting about half way down.

[ QUOTE ]
If someone in your family is causing problems in the neighborhood, it's up to your family to deal with that person, and failing to do so is evidence that the family supports the actions of their relative.

[/ QUOTE ]

It happens all the time where you support a person but you don't like what they do. Didn't your mom ever punish you when you were a kid? I recognize George Bush is the president, but I campaign for Democrats.

[ QUOTE ]
Your statement says you are.

[/ QUOTE ]
I want everyone to remember this quote. If you oppose war and oppose civilian casualties, you are a terrorist sympathizer, as long as Israel is doing the killing.

[ QUOTE ]
murder and kidnapping. how many have to be killed to make it not flimsy?

[/ QUOTE ]

In war speak (which is what you guys want, right?) its called inflicting casualties and taking prisoners. And more than two.

[primetime32]

[ QUOTE ]
Annihilation of the Arabs is impossible. Annihilation of the Jews is. Over the next century or two this will occur.

[/ QUOTE ]

This post doesn't make much sense. are you referring to israel or all jews?

And are you intentionally ignoring the fact that israel has nuclear weapons and any nations attempts to annihilate israel or the "jews" will be seen with the annihilation of the attacking country.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thus we will probably see a period of the Arab side being more murderous than the Jewish side.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what else is new?

[/ QUOTE ]

Breakdown of fatalities from 2000-2005, linked from wikipedia

Israelis killed: 1010
Palestinians killed: 3179

Israeli non-combatants killed by opposite side: 764
Palestinian non-combatants killed by opposite side: 1099

Israeli non-combatants under the age of 12 killed: 46
Palestinian non-combatants under the age of 12 killed: 88

[/ QUOTE ]

The statement was that Israelis were more murderous, not more murderous vs a particular group of people. Limiting the statistics in that way proves nothing about the original statement.

Also why limit it to those years?

And why does the text say linked from wiki when it isnt. (not that wiki is necessarily accurate to begin with)?

[Howard Beale]

[ QUOTE ]

Jews <snip 'and arabs'> have been bombarded with propaganda attempting to justify the right to kill for centuries.

[/ QUOTE ]


Was this ill-considered over-statement on your part that you may want to modify or do you really believe this? Who are the more famous warriors of the past 1300+ years? The Jews or the Arabs? Has there been ANY Jewish army in the last ~2,000 years up until the establishment of Israel? Can you point to any source or can you justify your statement that the Jews have been 'bombarded' in the manner you describe?

I just don't understand these types of statements. And how about this:

I was considering starting a thread asking 'Why is it that Israel is at peace with Jordan and Egypt?, but I'll stick it here. Why is it? I'll give you my answer:

Egypt asked for peace with Israel and got it. Jordan asked for peace with Israel and got it. Voila!

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
Egypt asked for peace with Israel and got it. Jordan asked for peace with Israel and got it. Voila!

[/ QUOTE ]


Please dont over-complicate things so much.