Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderers
 

You guys can go around and around arguing of whether some particular incident was an infringement on human rights by Israel, or argue how awful the Islamic militant groups are, but at the end of the day they both do so much awful [censored] that it is impossible to support one side. Each side has done awful things and killed lots of innocent kids. And the idea of "they started it by taking our land first so we had to respond", or "we have a right to defend ourself" is pretty much irrelevant, given each side can go one step farther back in time and find a crime by the other side which becomes a rationalization for their act. You can go back and forth until you are taking about a period so long ago that no one alive today was around for it, how can you justify killing someone who didn't necessarily do anything because their ancestors killed one of your ancestors?

The reason is that both sides of this conflict are lead by disgusting, hate driven people who only want to kill Jews or disgusting people who only want to kill Arabs. All the political justifications of "they did this to us" are just rationalizations so they can keep murdering Jews/Arabs. If a leader really wanted to help their people they would try to coexist. Since neither side is ever going to be defeated that is obviously the +EV choice.

I feel really bad for the innocent Israeli, Palestinian and Lebanese people who are caught in the middle of this. They are suffering because of the racism of their leaders, there are human rights tradegies on both sides every day and it's only happening because the leaders on all sides of this conflict have sick agendas.

Both sides have a long, long list of terrible acts they have committed. If you want to say "well side A was forced into a position where they had to kill someone innocent because of the awful thing side B did", well, side B just said the same thing because of what side A did 15 years ago. Or longer, eventually you are killing innocent people based on stuff no alive today did, and the people of both countries are suffering because of those acts of a long time ago.

Re: Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderers
 

Bingo. Peace is not in the interest of those "pulling the strings". Why? I have no idea.

Re: Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderers
 

[ QUOTE ]
You guys can go around and around arguing of whether some particular incident was an infringement on human rights by Israel, or argue how awful the Islamic militant groups are, but at the end of the day they both do so much awful [censored] that it is impossible to support one side. Each side has done awful things and killed lots of innocent kids. And the idea of "they started it by taking our land first so we had to respond", or "we have a right to defend ourself" is pretty much irrelevant, given each side can go one step farther back in time and find a crime by the other side which becomes a rationalization for their act. You can go back and forth until you are taking about a period so long ago that no one alive today was around for it, how can you justify killing someone who didn't necessarily do anything because their ancestors killed one of your ancestors?

The reason is that both sides of this conflict are lead by disgusting, hate driven people who only want to kill Jews or disgusting people who only want to kill Arabs. All the political justifications of "they did this to us" are just rationalizations so they can keep murdering Jews/Arabs. If a leader really wanted to help their people they would try to coexist. Since neither side is ever going to be defeated that is obviously the +EV choice.

I feel really bad for the innocent Israeli, Palestinian and Lebanese people who are caught in the middle of this. They are suffering because of the racism of their leaders, there are human rights tradegies on both sides every day and it's only happening because the leaders on all sides of this conflict have sick agendas.

Both sides have a long, long list of terrible acts they have committed. If you want to say "well side A was forced into a position where they had to kill someone innocent because of the awful thing side B did", well, side B just said the same thing because of what side A did 15 years ago. Or longer, eventually you are killing innocent people based on stuff no alive today did, and the people of both countries are suffering because of those acts of a long time ago.

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It must be nice to live in a world with no evil. Its not the world I live in.

Re: Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderers
 

It is impossible for me to imagine a continuation of violence if Israel is secure from attack. It is equally impossible for me to imagine that Israel will ever be secure from attack.

Re: Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderer
 

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It must be nice to live in a world with no evil. Its not the world I live in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, and both sides (or their leaders) are evil.

Re: Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderers
 

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It is impossible for me to imagine a continuation of violence if Israel is secure from attack. It is equally impossible for me to imagine that Israel will ever be secure from attack.

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She will be, either as a result of the "ultimate freedom", or securing and keeping the territory they win once and for all. If Israel hasnt learned that negotiating the return of territory only breeds more attacks, they are as unenlightened as the Palestinians and islamofacists.

Re: Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderer
 

Annihilation of the Arabs is impossible. Annihilation of the Jews is. Over the next century or two this will occur.

Re: Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderer
 

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It is impossible for me to imagine a continuation of violence if Israel is secure from attack. It is equally impossible for me to imagine that Israel will ever be secure from attack.

[/ QUOTE ]

The day is coming, I think the phenomenon is called the demographic bomb. About 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab and they are outbreeding the Jews. I remember hearing predictions that in about 15 years the Muslims in Israel + Territories will outnumber the Jews and in 75 years Muslims will outnumber Jews in Israel. The likely end to the Arab, Palestinian conflict is that Arabs become a majority in Israel and vote out the Jewish government. A less likely end is a Jewish PM doing the same thing as F.W DeKlirk (sp?) did in South Africa and admitting that Jewish dominance over Israel + Palestine is wrong and integrating Arabs in the Territories into Israel with the right to vote. Unfortunately, we are talking 100+ years for this.

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[ QUOTE ]
It must be nice to live in a world with no evil. Its not the world I live in.

[/ QUOTE ]Right, and both sides (or their leaders) are evil.

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Owned. That's exactly what the OP was talking about.

Re: Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderer
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It must be nice to live in a world with no evil. Its not the world I live in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, and both sides (or their leaders) are evil.

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You be the judge.

"We have to compromise in the name of peace, to give up parts of our promised land in which every hill and valley is saturated with Jewish history and in which our heroes are buried. We have to relinquish part of our dream to leave room for the dream of others, so that all of us can enjoy a better future. For this painful but necessary task my government was elected. And to this I am fully committed." -- Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Olmert to Joint Session of Congress, May 2006

"If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.” - Hezbollah leader Sheikh Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah - Lebanon Daily Star, October 23, 2002

"Hamas would “definitely not” be prepared for coexistence with Israel should the IDF retreat to its 1967 borders. “It can be a temporary solution, for a maximum of 5 to 10 years. But in the end Palestine must return to become Muslim, and in the long term Israel will disappear from the face of the earth.” — Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar
Yediot Ahronot, June 24, 2005

Re: Convince me that that both sides aren\'t simply disgusting murderer
 

both administrations should be put on international court of justice in Haag.