Dirty Poker - How much is true???

[WalkAmongUs]

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if you believe everything this guys says then you most likely are also an avid reader of the national enquirer

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Who said I believe everything Russ G says?

There's a difference between believing everything Russ says and pointing out 3 things benfranklin lied about in his post.

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i was referring to anyone believing the guy that wrote Dirty Poker.

I know Russ G. is full of crap...

[BuckThunder]

My entire post is based on the fact that I don't believe everything the guy has written. If I believed him why would I ask the questions - jackass! The book just made me think about the subject and he made some VERY valid points - you should read it instead of trying to figure out smartass ways to respond to a post.

[JackCase]

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if you believe everything this guys says then you most likely are also an avid reader of the national enquirer

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Who said I believe everything Russ G says?

There's a difference between believing everything Russ says and pointing out 3 things benfranklin lied about in his post.

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i was referring to anyone believing the guy that wrote Dirty Poker.

I know Russ G. is full of crap...

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Russ G. is a laughing stock to anyone in the poker community with an IQ above room temperature. All of his "everybody cheats" conspiracy spam is blatantly designed to get people to subscribe to his web site. The "UFOs Abduct Elvis" stories in the supermarket papers are better written and more believeable. The only thing that could be more pathetic is if Russ actually believes his own drivel.

[JackCase]

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The book just made me think about the subject and he made some VERY valid points

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I haven't read the book, but I haven't seen one valid point in this thread other than stating the obvious, that cheating is possible and potentially profitable.

And I certainly have no doubt that cheating occurs in poker, and even in big tournaments, but I have seen no evidence as to whether it is wide-spread, or serious enough to be a significant problem.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

As far as online poker goes you will run into occasional accidental collusion, and rarely collusion by intent. I don't play live, but if you go into Older Archives there are quite a few posts with replies by DS about cheats in the past. FWIW I think the only cheating you find on a common basis this day is angle shooting and collusion by bias or accident. The occasional idiot bending cards is nothing to worry about unless he is a good long time player as well, in which case I would worry.

I guess I should explain that by accidental collusion I mean 2 good players are friends and talk about hands with each other, occasionally during the hand (Which some find unethical). Sometimes this leads to questions that are very grey to dark grey collusion-wise. Collusion by bias is seen usually among elder players (or any other specific group) playing in a certain way vs each other, it usually is more of a social thing without ill intent. People conspiring to collude usually range from world class morons to people who do it well enough to not be noticed, with not much inbetween.

To put it in perspective: If you plan on making a living only playing 20/40 - 30/60 live I would be more worried about going broke due to a bad accident w/o health insurance than not being able to make it due to cheating. Hell, you should be way more worried about things like not playing enough, tilt, how well you play, future of gambling in the US, etc.

[BuckThunder]

I don't understand what you mean about being worried about going broke without health insurance. I'll do the math for you and you can explain:

30/60 - 1BB an hour x 40hrs/wk = $120,000/yr (its actually 124,800 but we will take out two weeks vacation to be realistic). I am in very good health and have had no major injuries, surgeries, etc. Private health insurance can't cost me more than 10k/yr and that is on the very high end(I have looked into this). That leaves me making 110,000 profit - I think that is a pretty good living.

Ok - lets say I wont be that good. .7BB/hr is still $84,000/yr minus the insurance is 74k.

I can gaurantee you I will play more than 40hrs a wk. Hell I work 60-65 now.

So lets say .6bb an hr at 50hr/wk. That is 90k/yr. Minus the insurance and I take home a cool 80k/yr playing a medium stakes game without near the stress of a high stakes game. Am I wrong on these assumptions? It all adds up to me. I've got health insurance, pay my taxes, live my modest life, and can still save.

And for those of you who think 80k/yr isnt a good living:

http://www.bls.gov/cew/state2002.txt

80k/yr is somewhere in the top 15% in the US

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I meant that people stay up at night worrying about things like the remotest possibility of cheating, then think 3 mins about getting health insurance but don't because "it's not a big risk". Do you see my point now?

Not playing due to laziness, being in poor health, alcohol and drug problems, tilt problems, poor bankroll management, poor game selection, not working on your game, etc. These are just a few of the things worth more time than worrying about cheating.

[BuckThunder]

I am not up all night worrying - I just read the book and had some legitimate questions because the guy makes valid points.

I am not lazy, in good health, dont do drugs, only ocassionaly drink, have a degree in finance so I can mng my BR (plus I am jewish [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]), i study and read all the time, and try to choose my games very carefully. So - I believe I have a few moments to wonder and ask if cheating is a real problem. I have yet to have anyone reply who has read the book and has real answers to my questions. Just a bunch of people who say "i havent read the book but the guy is ful of crap"

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I play online 20-30hrs a week and I pay attention and notice very little cheating. If it's going on and I'm missing it then it's not to a degree that matters. The older archives have plenty of first hand info for you regarding b&m cheating. If you play live it's safe to say you'll lose more to dealer mistakes than cheating.

[BuckThunder]

ok. thanks.