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#24
03-26-2006, 09:24 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
[ QUOTE ]
but I don't for a second believe that a majority, let alone an overwhelming majority, of 2+2ers have never cheated. [/ QUOTE ] if this is true, and i do not believe it to be, then i am ashamed of being a member here. 
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#25
03-26-2006, 09:27 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
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Interesting that GT+ and Poker Ace are perceived by some as borderline on the ethics scale, but no mention is being made of that segment of the population that takes advantage of unauthorized rakeback schemes on Party – an activity that is clearly proscribed by the poker room and a practice that I consider to be unfair, since it means that some opponents are paying less to play than you are, on an ongoing basis. [/ QUOTE ] Well, that's sort of like saying that someone who gets a volume discount from a business is cheating those who don't. Regardless, I don't see this as part of the same issue. [ QUOTE ] Party Poker’s marketing manager makes a lot of noise preaching against rakeback – although his basic argument is that affiliates would cannibalize each other’s players. But Party’s attrition rate is a whopping 75 percent, its new-player acquisition costs are enormous and one-third of its new players are attracted via affiliates. So I believe he speaks with forked tongue and turns a blind eye to sub-rosa affiliate kickbacks. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps so. I think Party would be better off setting up some sort of high-volume discount of their own, and limiting what's paid to affiliates instead of giving them a slice of all rake generated by their players indefinitely. Maybe pay them a nice bounty for each player brought in. If they did something like that, rakeback would go away. The affiliates might be able to offer a share of the bounty to entice players to sign up under them, but they wouldn't be able to give out kickbacks on an ongoing basis. [ QUOTE ] I was unaware that Party specifically disapproves of GT+ and Poker Ace. My view is that these tools definitely confer a real-time advantage, but are transparent and inexpensively available to all, much as bonus offers are. [/ QUOTE ] That's much the same argument offered by bot users. It's a difference in degree, not in kind. I don't think that much information should be available; ideally, I'd prefer that everyone relied on their own notes and human memory, not on real-time statistical tools and databases. [ QUOTE ] I believe Poker Tracker is fundamentally a comprehensive self-help tool, and an indispensable one at that. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. But I only use it to analyze my own game, not to work out other people's playing styles while I'm at the table. Just my own sense of ethics. [ QUOTE ] Off-table data mining was certainly a sharp practice, but that has been severely reduced. [/ QUOTE ] There we definitely agree. I don't believe that anyone is entitled to information that they didn't glean personally, either by playing at the table or observing it in person. I found the practice of observing 20 tables and collecting hand histories while the player wasn't even there revolting. -Mike
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#26
03-26-2006, 09:31 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] but I don't for a second believe that a majority, let alone an overwhelming majority, of 2+2ers have never cheated. [/ QUOTE ] if this is true, and i do not believe it to be, then i am ashamed of being a member here. [/ QUOTE ] Then leave. People make mistakes and I don't vilify them for it.
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#27
03-26-2006, 09:33 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] but I don't for a second believe that a majority, let alone an overwhelming majority, of 2+2ers have never cheated. [/ QUOTE ] if this is true, and i do not believe it to be, then i am ashamed of being a member here. [/ QUOTE ] I'll temper my statement somewhat. I can believe perfectly easily that the majority of players who have played only online have never cheated. There are not the same opportunities to cheat and the risk involved is far higher. At B&Ms and home games, I suspect at least half of all regular players have, at one time or another, cheated.
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#28
03-26-2006, 09:41 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
I cheated when i was a kid at a home game but it was a built in part of the game.
One of the rules was 'if u get caught cheating you are out of the pot' And lots of other unusual stuff happened to: like when there was a really big pot you had better either be one of the tougher (as in able to kick ass) players or one of the most liked because sometimes someone would just lunge at the pot as a 'joke' even though they didn't win. At that point almost everyone else would start lungeing for some of the money in the pot laughing and grabbing for a handful of nickles and dimes while the actual winner of the hand did their best to get as much of hte money he won as he was able to..... Gives 'protecting the pot' a whole new perspective. That was when i was like 14, I'm 38 now and have never cheated since. That game was about drinking and messing around and trying to catch each other cheating or cheating in some unusual way and being caught on purpose for laughs than about acutal poker though..
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#29
03-26-2006, 09:50 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but I don't for a second believe that a majority, let alone an overwhelming majority, of 2+2ers have never cheated. [/ QUOTE ] if this is true, and i do not believe it to be, then i am ashamed of being a member here. [/ QUOTE ] Then leave. People make mistakes and I don't vilify them for it. [/ QUOTE ] if i thought you were an accurate reflection of this community, i would be gone in a second. you are extremely dishonest, and your protectiveness of your buddies at the cost of the integrity of the game is reprehensible.
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