KK vs. BeL0WaB0Ve - Page 3

beenben · #21 12-21-2006, 01:12 AM

he either has 89 hearts or a set of 77 or TT, all of which have us beat. so why are we shoving? we know we're behind. easy fold. plenty of chips left to work with.

adanthar · #22 12-21-2006, 01:42 AM

prayingmantis,

his range here is pretty small, but the problem with calling is that you can't fold to a bet on a turn blank/after you call he knows your hand and plays accordingly (like, I guarantee you that if he has any idea who you are, he knows your range is roughly equal to if you'd just shoved.) So all that calling does instead of shoving is occasionally getting him to check/fold a flush draw or something.

oh yeah, it also makes some of your turn options suck, so ansky is right and you should just be shoving.

0evg0 · #23 12-21-2006, 02:14 AM

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he either has 89 hearts or a set of 77 or TT, all of which have us beat. so why are we shoving? we know we're behind. easy fold. plenty of chips left to work with.

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Loc: Killing the $3.40 turbos

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I hate (okay, not hate, but feel guilty) doing this a lot lately, and maybe Im just the kid with the new toy (the toy being that I actually get this [censored] now), but this is ludicrously dumb.

ASPoker8 · #24 12-21-2006, 02:18 AM

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he either has 89 hearts or a set of 77 or TT, all of which have us beat. so why are we shoving? we know we're behind. easy fold. plenty of chips left to work with.

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Loc: Killing the $3.40 turbos

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this is ludicrously dumb.

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beenben · #25 12-21-2006, 02:30 AM

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he either has 89 hearts or a set of 77 or TT, all of which have us beat. so why are we shoving? we know we're behind. easy fold. plenty of chips left to work with.

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Loc: Killing the $3.40 turbos

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this is ludicrously dumb.

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what's ludicrously dumb is saying that someone's post is dumb without explaining why. and at least my butt's not bleeding.

He can't have AKh because we have the Kh. he might have air, but that's not likely. it's slightly more likely but still unlikely that he has two pair. he might have a smaller over pair or aces or TPTK, but I think it's more likely he has a set.

why is it such a crime to fold when we're reasonably sure that we're behind?

Imagethegod · #26 12-21-2006, 02:43 AM

That's the thing, we're not reasonably sure we're behind. If anything, I think there's a good chance we'll get a fold to a push. Saying that he most likely has a set in this situation is a nit-fest for me. While it may be true, I have no problem with a shove here, especially against someone like below...he could easily be on a draw.

JSchnett · #27 12-21-2006, 03:10 AM

Its a bad spot but calling the flop doesnt help at all. I like a shove here. I think if you call its too obvious what you have and he can check through a ton of hands. If you call and lead the turn your hand is even more transparent. What I'm trying to say is that all lines suck and shoving sucks the least.

MrTimCaum · #28 12-21-2006, 03:46 AM

if OP bets 190 or 200 here like he should on this draw-y flop with 4-way action and a dangerous lag in the SB, this is much less of an overbet when 3-bet shoving. betting half pot on this flop is TERRIBLE

0evg0 · #29 12-21-2006, 03:49 AM

We're never getting a fold when we push here btw

beenben, why is JTh not in his range? or T9h? or T8h? or 56h? or 45h? or 46h? or 68h? or J9h? or J8h?

get it?

beenben · #30 12-21-2006, 04:13 AM

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We're never getting a fold when we push here btw

beenben, why is JTh not in his range? or T9h? or T8h? or 56h? or 45h? or 46h? or 68h? or J9h? or J8h?

get it?

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why is JTh not in his range? or T9h? or T8h? or 56h? or 45h? or 46h? or 68h? or J9h? or J8h?

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OK, I agree those can be in his range pre-flop, but with the flop re-raise I would think he'd have the str8 and flush draws which means 14 outs (b/c we have the K :heart):. so we're pushing to make him fold the draws and betting that he doesn't have a set. but with all those outs, he's not folding the draw - he's flipping if he's got 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]