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  #21  
Old 12-11-2006, 10:09 PM
George Rice George Rice is offline
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Default Re: The Mirror Test For Non Apes and Elephants

[ QUOTE ]
On a related note crows have been reported to be seen dropping walnuts onto highways. They wait for cars to run over the walnuts shell so that they can get to the nut inside.

[/ QUOTE ]

Large birds typically drop their prey from high up to kill it. That, and the dropping of nuts, might be evidence of reasoning to some degree, or simple the results of many trials and errors, and very little reasoning.

Old cat had no practice.
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  #22  
Old 12-12-2006, 04:59 AM
Cornell Fiji Cornell Fiji is offline
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Default A response from the author of the elephant study

David,
The author of the elepant study emailed me the following response to your question. If you have any other questions on the subject please post them here and I will let him know. He is very amenable toward talking about this subject and would be happy to answer any further questions that you may have.

-Steve


Response form author of elephant study

David --

Thanks for your interest in mirror studies. It is imperative in these tests of mirror self-recognition that the animals spontaneously learn how to use the mirror (i.e., recognizing that the mirror reflection is self); "helping the animals along" could introduce a lot of confounds, including the well-known "Clever Hans" phenomenon, where a human might cue the animal unconsciously. I should note that many species, including monkeys, birds and probably dogs, can use mirrors to guide their behavior (e.g., find hidden food visible only in the mirror). Thus, they get the mirror to some extent but just don't understand their own reflections. It is this understanding that is so rare in the animal kingdom. Please let me know if I can help any further. Josh
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