Fun w/ AKs - Page 3

The Dude · #21 10-31-2007, 08:15 AM

Okay, first of all, let me emphasize my opponent here. He "knows how to play tight," but he's not consistently tight. Also, he's probably on tilt right now. Also, I've been raising a ton lately. Also, he is aware of this because several times it's been raising his limp or 3betting his raise. Also, I got the vibe he didn't like his hand before the flop. All this adds up to a pretty wide range of hands here. Someone mentioned T6s. That might not be out of his range, although it certainly should be discounted vs JT.

Secondly, this guy is Asian, so he does weird stuff, and he doesn't like to fold. Does this line really look that bizarre for something like Ax? Do you guys really think this type of player isn't paying off a raise on the river?

I'm not necessarily declaring that I think raising is best here, I'd like to hear some more discussion, but I think it's getting dismissed as an option completely, and I don't know that it should.

andyfox · #22 10-31-2007, 11:20 AM

The guys I know for whom this line is standard with A-x don't call river raises with one pair. They just don't. Not ever here in L.A., much less in Vegas. They're thinking: OK, The Dude has bet the flop and turn, but he'd proably stop betting a pocket pair less than aces here on the river (because that's what I would do), so I better bet the river lest he check behind putting me on a weak ace. Oops, he's raised, I was wrong, I only have one pair, he's been betting all the way and now when I bet he raises, he must have a big hand.

I've seen check-call, check-call, bet-fold to a raise fifty times more often than check-call, check-call, call a raise with only one pair.

mike l. · #23 10-31-2007, 11:51 AM

my first instinct was raise and i could tell that was obviously what you were thinking but that AJT86 board texture is deadly and makes folding probably an even better choice than a raise. i would call only because he's tilted and capable of playing bad. A5o is definitely getting played this way a ton in bellagio. so call.

ready for the meta hand: weigh how much more will you calling and him showing Ax tilt him vs. how much you raising and him calling and showing 97h untilt him.

mike l. · #24 10-31-2007, 11:54 AM

but youre thinking of players who have some game postflop andy. the dude is describing a tilty bad player. also the dude looks like he's 15 and cocky. he gets called way more than most players. old people are so gullible.

andyfox · #25 10-31-2007, 12:01 PM

"old people are so gullible.'

Don't be daft.

goofball · #26 10-31-2007, 02:49 PM

This guy is folding a pair very rarely in my opinion, rarely enough that we should consider both of you putting 2 bets into the pot here by far the most common result of a raise.

In other words in a vacuum you need to be ahead 50.1% of the time for you to raise. Mike has a good point about meta and it's probably 55. I can actually see this kind of persons disgusted or triumphant/vindicated reaction as the circumstances allow.

All that being said, I just don't think you're ahead quite 50% of the time. It's just not the kind of board where people are likely to show up with one pair. I first thought call and then thought raise but now think call. Also looks like I basically retyped mike's post, but whatever. I don't think fold is probably better than call so there's that.

ProfessorBen · #27 10-31-2007, 07:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, this guy is Asian, so he does weird stuff, and he doesn't like to fold. Does this line really look that bizarre for something like Ax? Do you guys really think this type of player isn't paying off a raise on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. You guys have no idea how many BB/100 I make off this alone.

ProfessorBen · #28 10-31-2007, 07:54 PM

Nina: I would need a specific read to raise that.

I concur.

SNOWBALL · #29 10-31-2007, 11:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, this guy is Asian, so he does weird stuff, and he doesn't like to fold. Does this line really look that bizarre for something like Ax? Do you guys really think this type of player isn't paying off a raise on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. You guys have no idea how many BB/100 I make off this alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't decide whether I would rather have an asian disguise or a persian disguise, but it's def close.

Adebisi · #30 11-01-2007, 12:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ready for the meta hand: weigh how much more will you calling and him showing Ax tilt him vs. how much you raising and him calling and showing 97h untilt him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think pausing, thinking for a few seconds like you're pondering a fold, then shrugging and calling will get you the best tilt equity here, regardless or what he has. When he has Ax, it will be sort of like a semi-slowroll. When he has some retarded bluff, he'll get a glimmer of hope when you hesitate. When he has a better hand, he'll think you actually considered folding AK there against him, so you must have a really good read of how he plays.

Don't do any silly hollywooding or anything, but just give a slight indication that you're considering a fold. This should have the most negative effect on villains mental state overall, I think.