**Official uNL Microbrew Thread: March(LC/NC goes here)** - Page 218

Genz · #**2171** 03-31-2007, 04:40 AM

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donkingfishy on FTP 50nl, you can NOT handle the amount of tables you're playing. Please cut back, because waiting on you to time out every time I steal your blind is very monotonous.

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Sometimes i feel that there are actually people who fold by timing out to punish you.

Sir Winalot · #**2172** 03-31-2007, 04:42 AM

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donkingfishy on FTP 50nl, you can NOT handle the amount of tables you're playing. Please cut back, because waiting on you to time out every time I steal your blind is very monotonous.

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Sometimes i feel that there are actually people who fold by timing out to punish you.

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I do this sometimes. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Genz · #**2173** 03-31-2007, 04:45 AM

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This is kinda LC so I bring this up here rather than in a new thread.

I've noticed that a lot of time we 2+2'ers (including myself) assume that our average 25nl/50nl villains are playing their draws aggressively when we play and give strategy advice over here, e.g. raising flops with flushdraws and 3-bet shoving combo-draws on the flop etc. This obviously has a huge impact on our decision-making progress.

I got into thinking that how often are they actually doing this? After all, not everyone is an aggressive 2+2'er who 'plays draws aggro to get action on big hands'. What do you think?

[please notice that this might just be results-orientated thinking]

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In Psychology of Poker there is a nice term for this kind of thinking. I forgot it, though. It's the fallacy (that was part of the term. I think it is egoistical fallacy or something) that you evaluate villain's play on the basis of how you would play a certain hand. Villain could have a completely different understanding of hand strengths, etc. I.e. playing any draw very passively and every pair like the nuts. That leads to wrong reads and decisions all over the place. Sometimes I read advice here that says something like "he wouldn't do this or that with his set/2pair/whatever, because...". And it's mostly the author's own opinion how villain should have played his hand. In general I assume that people on uNL rather playing made hands strongly and draws passively. Only when I see someone play a (combo)draw very fast, I make a note and I recategorize him as a slightly better player. Of course, most people play weak made hands passively as well. But when a player with "normal" stats gets aggressive on a board that has some draws on it, I'm more likely to assume that he actually has a made hand and is not bluffing me with a draw.

Triggerle · #**2174** 03-31-2007, 05:14 AM

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OMG that is totally me. I really need to get into my head that at the uNL good play isn't running over tables picking up small pots but extracting the maximum with decent hands. Everytime I forget this, I start spewing and lose a couple of BIs. Then I sit down, think about it and concentrate on extracting, I go up again. It's just when you win for a period of time, you think you can pwn these people badly and actually move down on their level. I don't think uNL is the place for running over tables, because there is too much (semi-)bluffing involved. And you don't make a cut with that on levels full of calling stations.

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Running over the table, winning lots of small pots is a big part of winning at uNL. A lot of pots are not really contested because nobody hit anything and you can pick those up by being the aggressor. Just don't try to push calling stations off made hands. They won't fold middle pair, which is why you have to concede some pots here and there to them. That is until you have a hand that beats middle pair and then you take it all back in one piece.

thac · #**2175** 03-31-2007, 06:41 AM

Donkaments are a really bad cocktease. Call a 5bb shove from the sb with KT in bb and his A7 holds, then AK against the chipleaders KK. Die die die.

Dear TbHackworth,

You finished the tournament in 18th place.
A $39.98 award has been credited to your Real Money account.

4 hours of my life and $30 profit. Awesome.

HugovB · #**2176** 03-31-2007, 06:50 AM

I hate 50NL

jan: 25NL --> 6,5BB/100 over 18k hands
feb: 25NL --> 11BB/100 over 15k hands
march: 50NL/25NL --> -3BB/100 over 22k hands

I'm taking a break.

Genz · #**2177** 03-31-2007, 08:16 AM

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Running over the table, winning lots of small pots is a big part of winning at uNL. A lot of pots are not really contested because nobody hit anything and you can pick those up by being the aggressor. Just don't try to push calling stations off made hands. They won't fold middle pair, which is why you have to concede some pots here and there to them. That is until you have a hand that beats middle pair and then you take it all back in one piece.

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Problem is that in my experience almost all uNL players turn into callingstations very quickly and very often. Of course it all depends on the situation and there are a lot of good spots to take pots down. What I meant is more directed towards the attitude that one wants to own the whole table, is active in every other hand and pushes everyone around. When I have spotted a weak player, I isolate him and steal from him without mercy, too. But a genuinely LAG game is a waste of money in uNL, imo.

And HAPPY BIRTHDAY of course.

Dastone · #**2178** 03-31-2007, 08:56 AM

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Damnit u friggin donkey isn't it obvious he has AA???! arg would have stacked them both if he didn't reraise.

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($49.25)
BB ($66.95)
Hero ($50)
MP ($49.25)
CO ($39.80)
Button ($49.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, CO raises to $3.5, Button raises to $5, 2 folds, Hero calls $3, CO raises to $24.25, Button raises to $54.25 (All-In), Hero folds, CO calls $19.05 (All-In).

Flop: ($103.30) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)
.

Turn: ($103.30) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($103.30) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $103.30

Results in white below: 
CO has Ts Td (one pair, tens).
Button has As Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Button wins $103.30. 

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I know this is a day old, but I just wanted to say LOL, CO rerereraises w/ 1010. Damn that cracks me up. My guess is he didn't want to be up against two overpairs so the raise was to push you out, and get it heads up with the 4 bettor. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Sucks about the flop.

Sean Fraley · #**2179** 03-31-2007, 10:54 AM

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Running over the table, winning lots of small pots is a big part of winning at uNL. A lot of pots are not really contested because nobody hit anything and you can pick those up by being the aggressor. Just don't try to push calling stations off made hands. They won't fold middle pair, which is why you have to concede some pots here and there to them. That is until you have a hand that beats middle pair and then you take it all back in one piece.

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Problem is that in my experience almost all uNL players turn into callingstations very quickly and very often. Of course it all depends on the situation and there are a lot of good spots to take pots down. What I meant is more directed towards the attitude that one wants to own the whole table, is active in every other hand and pushes everyone around. When I have spotted a weak player, I isolate him and steal from him without mercy, too. But a genuinely LAG game is a waste of money in uNL, imo.

And HAPPY BIRTHDAY of course.

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Quite looking at the situation as "at this level" or "at this table". Instead just look at every single street of every single hand as unique entity unto itself and adjust your play to the players and circumstances that are present at that moment. Sometimes you will be up against a player wants to see almost every flop but who won't ever commit more than half there stack without anything less than the nuts postflop. Sometimes you will be in a hand against an opponent who will go to the river with ace high on a dry board but folds everytime the board pairs, three of a suit hit and so on unless he is the one with the flush or boat. As long as you can adjust, any game with loose and bad players, whether LAG or LAP, is profitable.

This is one of the reasons that I think it is very important to play preflop in a fashion that has the pot heads up postflop, at least most of the time. This way you don't wind up in "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations in multiway pots where any action you take with a mediocre hand is going to be a problem.

On a related note, I think that people really need to start including the Went to Showdown % in the stats when they post hands. How often a person is folding the flop and how strong of a hand they consider worth continuing with is a pretty crucial piece of information when deciding when and how to extract money from them.

prodonkey · #**2180** 03-31-2007, 11:09 AM

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH -1k today.. [censored] donk tards on stars omaha games crushed me.. guy ran 85/30.. obviously he owns me every pot we play.. then he spews off a 8 buy in stack inside of 10 minutes and I manage to get absolutely none of it. I [censored] hate omaha!