$215 (R)... Kick in the Door

[tigerite]

Yeah the pf is absolutely fine if you ask me and the flop too, although you can cont bet sometimes, to mix it up and what have you a check is probably the standard play.

[pineapple888]

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I like it! The open-raise here is pretty standard, I thought.

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Well, maybe the 215s are tighter than I remember them, but with 16BB and four larger stacks to act and a real shaky hand, I'm being pretty conservative here. On a tight table it's fine though, of course.

[microbet]

Preflop I think is good.

Flop is a decent spot to bet, but I pass on that a lot against a "meh, a little on the aggro" side opponent. He's more likely to make either a loose call without much or something wierd like min-raise you on the flop. Against a good opponent, I bet, and of course I'm betting my made hands as well.

Turn doesn't seem bad, but villian has a few too many chips behind. If he folded, I think you were ahead. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[bigt439]

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Turn doesn't seem bad, but villian has a few too many chips behind. If he folded, I think you were ahead. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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This was what I found fairly interesting about the hand.

I'm wondering if a call isn't the best play here because if he folds I'm likely ahead. Of course this gives him another card to improve, but it also is way less risky for me (because he's not likely to fire again if behind on the river so I can check it down or at least re-evaluate on the river). This would also let me extract more chips if I was behind and end up hitting.

I think raise, fold, and call are all close, but I think fold is the big loser of the three. I'm not sure what the winner is though.

[microbet]

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Turn doesn't seem bad, but villian has a few too many chips behind. If he folded, I think you were ahead. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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This was what I found fairly interesting about the hand.

I'm wondering if a call isn't the best play here because if he folds I'm likely ahead. Of course this gives him another card to improve, but it also is way less risky for me (because he's not likely to fire again if behind on the river so I can check it down or at least re-evaluate on the river). This would also let me extract more chips if I was behind and end up hitting.

I think raise, fold, and call are all close, but I think fold is the big loser of the three. I'm not sure what the winner is though.

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His hands:

diamond draw
Most likely you can't get anymore chips out of him unless he hits. Only exception is if he pairs and it gives you a better hand. No reason to give him a free card. Also, he may put money in badly now, but not on the river.

pocket pair or slightly better ace
He may fold AT or AJ or AK or 66-88 or whatever, pushing isn't bad against these hands.

Hands that crush you
His play wasn't inconsistant with a slowplay big hand, but hopefully no monsters.

Hand that you are beating
There are a lot of these. If he bets again on the river, you are going to call down his supposed two street bluff with A-high? And does he make that bluff with a hand that can't even beat A-med kicker after you raise preflop and call the turn?

I don't think you get chips on the river unless you both hit and you outkick. Same story as diamond draw.

club draw
Not likely, but he still has pair outs that can beat you and is probably just as likely to put his money in badly on the turn as a club is to hit the river and get you paid.

Since your not going to win anything if he value bets, and might even lose to a river bluff, since you don't even have a great kicker, I think pushing is better than calling.

Best case scenerio I think there is for calling is if he checks the river and you check behind and win. Seems like that's more the right play here when you have Q-weak kicker or pockets under Q.

[2Fast]

I think he needs to raise a little more pre-flop and also do the C-bet on that flop as he might get villain to fold - and a re-raise probably means you're done with the hand. If you call the turn and a club doesn't hit and villain checks you throw out a decent-sized value bet to look like you want a call and have a monster right?

(apologies if I'm outta my league here boys as I play 11s and 22s mostly)

[microbet]

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I think he needs to raise a little more pre-flop and also do the C-bet on that flop as he might get villain to fold - and a re-raise probably means you're done with the hand. If you call the turn and a club doesn't hit and villain checks you throw out a decent-sized value bet to look like you want a call and have a monster right?

(apologies if I'm outta my league here boys as I play 11s and 22s mostly)

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My advice is to never say you are out of your league in poker again.

Preflop raise I think is a good amount. I go 250 or 275 or so, wherever my slider lands. Whether or not to raise at all depends on the villians, but in general I think the raise is fine.

Like I said in my post, I think C-betting the flop depends on villains. Throw me in the hand blind at the flop and I C-bet. I think I C-bet a little more often at the lower buyins because I think you can do it at 1/2 pot, but at the higher buyins you have to do 3/4 pot or more. IMHO.

I don't like a value-bet bluff on the river because the guy has too many chips and will almost certainly call with anything that beats you and very likely fold anything that you beat.

I think for a value-bet bluff you should have really crappy cards, be up against a folding-machine, and/or threaten villian's tournament. (last reason isn't enough by itself)

[pooh74]

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either fold or raise more preflop.


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I think all this talk about preflop is a little strange. I think it is by far the least interesting part of the hand and is in fact very standard.

I would never fold here pf. I would also almost never raise more than 250. Doing so just risks more chips while accomplishing the exact same thing. If they're calling a raise to 250, they're calling one to 300.

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As long as you're raising QQ to 250 then, yes, its fine.

[pineapple888]

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I think fold is the big loser of the three.

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Yeah, anyone who folds Ace-high on the turn with a crappy kicker and a crappy draw, especially when he might be drawing dead, must really suck. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Inyaface]

Me likey....go back to ring fool.